# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 272
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5422 "2018-07-13T16:13:47Z")
Hey, dipshit. Enjoy your tea!! ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5423 "2018-07-13T16:17:35Z")
A quick reminder that Dotard publicly asked Russia to hack HRC’s emails, July 2016. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5424 "2018-07-13T16:17:48Z")
Ddamn! The breaking news banner at the AP says > [@](#): > > 12 Russian intelligence officers indicted for hacking in 2016 US presidential election ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5425 "2018-07-13T16:19:16Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > The indictment charges 12 Russian intelligence officers with hacking into the DNC. Meaning the Kremlin specifically. > > Gosh, would it be appropriate for an American president to raise this concern to the president of Russia during a “summit?” That is not a surprise, we all knew “paperwork” on the Russians was coming but it IS disappointing. I was hoping for a direct action on Trump’s family and/or cronies. It’s not like we can extradite anyone from the Kremlin, or squeeze them to “turn”. It’s just symbolic unless we can catch them on US soil and make an arrest. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5426 "2018-07-13T16:20:38Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > A quick reminder that Dotard publicly asked Russia to hack HRC’s emails, July 2016. Easily and conveniently forgotten or dismissed by all his supporters. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5427 "2018-07-13T16:27:08Z")
You’re right, **SteveG1** , but it’s not just symbolic. It keeps these spies from returning to the US, and it puts Russia on notice that we are aware of their operational methods. It also puts pressure on Congress to force the administration to be accountable for what was done. For Trump to meet with Putin and say/do nothing about it continues to demonstrate Trump’s fealty to Putin, and ratchets up pressure on Congress to act on it. Lastly, it puts more pressure on Trump to protect our election process from foreign intervention. Sure, a frog march of Don Jr. would have been much more viscerally satisfying, but would you really want Mueller to roll out that kind of indictment on the cusp of Trump’s meeting with Putin? Who knows what sort of retaliatory action Putin might put into his head? ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5428 "2018-07-13T16:28:41Z")
So many witches. So these 12 Russian intel officers certainly didn’t do this of their own free will. Who gave the order? Just kidding we know it was Putin. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5429 "2018-07-13T16:29:07Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > That is not a surprise, we all knew “paperwork” on the Russians was coming but it IS disappointing. > > I was hoping for a direct action on Trump’s family and/or cronies. It’s not like we can extradite anyone from the Kremlin, or squeeze them to “turn”. It’s just symbolic unless we can catch them on US soil and make an arrest. Naw, I disagree. This is a reminder for the public that foreign entities committed crimes against America. This is a reminder for the GOP, especially after their embarrassing display yesterday. This is a reminder for Dotard, especially before his meeting with Putin. An indictment against his family, while desirable for some, would be construed as politically motivated. By showing that the Russians committed these crimes (according to the grand jury, at least), Mueller/Rosenstein is emphasizing that there is plenty of there, there. Now that the grand jury has shown, to its satisfaction, that the Russians hacked the DNC, now the question of “what happened with the hacked information” can be addressed. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5430 "2018-07-13T16:36:28Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > You’re right, **SteveG1** , but it’s not just symbolic. It keeps these spies from returning to the US, and it puts Russia on notice that we are aware of their operational methods. It also puts pressure on Congress to force the administration to be accountable for what was done. > > For Trump to meet with Putin and say/do nothing about it continues to demonstrate Trump’s fealty to Putin, and ratchets up pressure on Congress to act on it. > > Lastly, it puts more pressure on Trump to protect our election process from foreign intervention. > > Sure, a frog march of Don Jr. would have been much more viscerally satisfying, but would you really want Mueller to roll out that kind of indictment on the cusp of Trump’s meeting with Putin? Who knows what sort of retaliatory action Putin might put into his head? I want the frog march. I really do. Part of the problem here, is people are afraid of what Trump might do in retaliation, or just what he might do period. He retaliates against everyone for everything real or imagined, so what’s the difference. He makes shit UP to retaliate for. When there is nothing to retaliate for, he creates shit storms anyway. So what can we lose? Nothing. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5431 "2018-07-13T16:41:23Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Lastly, it puts more pressure on Trump to protect our election process from foreign intervention. This is not going to happen, because now that Russia has their useful stooges in power, they are going to throw the fucking kitchen sink at us. And they know that the party currently in power is a) just as wedded to plutocracy and authoritarianism as they are b) and, because of this, increasingly desperate to find ways to keep their grip on power Russia will attack America’s elections process again. Intelligence officials, journalists, and the Democrats will protest, while the Republican kleptocrats will invite Russia to hack away and try to cover it up afterwards. And if Republicans lose, you can expect them to turnaround and disingenuously use Russian meddling, which they now want, as an excuse to invalidate the election results, and they will foment a constitutional crisis. ---
**Author:** ![Celidin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Celidin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celidin)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5432 "2018-07-13T16:43:30Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Naw, I disagree. > > This is a reminder for the public that foreign entities committed crimes against America. > > This is a reminder for the GOP, especially after their embarrassing display yesterday. > > This is a reminder for Dotard, especially before his meeting with Putin. And it’s now _literally_ true that when Trump calls the investigation a “rigged witch hunt” he’s taking aiding and abetting these Russian agents of the Russia GRU in their crimes. (paraphrasing [Seth Abramson](https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1017806649703239680)) ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5433 "2018-07-13T16:43:49Z")
Interesting. A footnote in the indictments references a “Congressional candidate” who requested the stolen documents from Guccifer 2.0, on or about 8.15.2016. > ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5434 "2018-07-13T16:44:18Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > That is not a surprise, we all knew “paperwork” on the Russians was coming but it IS disappointing. > > I was hoping for a direct action on Trump’s family and/or cronies. It’s not like we can extradite anyone from the Kremlin, or squeeze them to “turn”. It’s just symbolic unless we can catch them on US soil and make an arrest. The interesting thing to me was that (as in the prior Russian indictment) [Rosenstein said](https://www.npr.org/2018/07/13/628773789/deputy-attorney-general-rod-rosenstein-unveils-new-hacking-charges-in-dnc-case) “There is no allegation in the indictment that any American participated knowingly in the GRU cyberattacks”. It’s possible that there’s nothing more than the literal words - that there’s nothing in the indictment about any Americans knowingly participating - but it certainly suggests that they don’t really think any Americans actually did, or there would be no real reason to stress this. And if this is the correct interpretation, then this is something of a development, because the hacking and dissemination of DNC emails was one of the most promising (such as it was) prospects for collusion. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5435 "2018-07-13T16:47:18Z")
“Let’s not forget that with today’s talking about the Russian Hack of the DNC that the GOP was also hacked. I suspect one day we will come to realize that the data from that hack is largely responsible for what we see today. One party crushed one compromised.” [https://twitter.com/mikefarb1/status/1017811457348685826?s=19](https://twitter.com/mikefarb1/status/1017811457348685826?s=19) ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5436 "2018-07-13T16:49:42Z")
Rosenstein today: “In a second, related conspiracy, Russian GRU officers hacked the website of a state election board and stole information about 500,000 voters. They also hacked into computers of a company that supplied software used to verify voter registration information.” But they didn’t change votes. Or voters. Of that, I’m sure. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5437 "2018-07-13T16:49:59Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I want the frog march. I really do. Part of the problem here, is people are afraid of what Trump might do in retaliation, or just what he might do period. > > He retaliates against everyone for everything real or imagined, so what’s the difference. He makes shit UP to retaliate for. > > When there is nothing to retaliate for, he creates shit storms anyway. > > So what can we lose? Nothing. I understand your frustration, but all things in good time. This is just the first shoe to drop before September. Mueller and his team know what they are doing, far better than Trump does. All Trump has is a wrecking ball. Mueller knows how to bring his charges and how best to make them stick. It’s only another 6 weeks. > [@asahi](#): > > This is not going to happen, because now that Russia has their useful stooges in power, they are going to throw the fucking kitchen sink at us. And they know that the party currently in power is > > a) just as wedded to plutocracy and authoritarianism as they are > > b) and, because of this, increasingly desperate to find ways to keep their grip on power > > Russia will attack America’s elections process again. Intelligence officials, journalists, and the Democrats will protest, while the Republican kleptocrats will invite Russia to hack away and try to cover it up afterwards. > > And if Republicans lose, you can expect them to turnaround and disingenuously use Russian meddling, which they now want, as an excuse to invalidate the election results, and they will foment a constitutional crisis. You’ll note I didn’t say it _would_ happen, only that it would put pressure on Trump. The pressure doesn’t come from Republicans. It comes from public opinion, which will continue to be influenced by Mueller’s findings/indictments. We could take a page from the playbook of the good people of London. Try not to forget that even Republicans voted to leave Russian sanctions in place and not allow Trump to unilaterally lift them, and the Senate recently voted nearly unanimously to support NATO. They’re disingenuous fucks to be sure – but even they have some limits on how far they are going to let Trump go. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5438 "2018-07-13T16:58:36Z")
Those things could be bad for business. Republicans are all about giving us the business, good and hard. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5439 "2018-07-13T17:09:12Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The interesting thing to me was that (as in the prior Russian indictment) [Rosenstein said](https://www.npr.org/2018/07/13/628773789/deputy-attorney-general-rod-rosenstein-unveils-new-hacking-charges-in-dnc-case) “There is no allegation in the indictment that any American participated knowingly in the GRU cyberattacks”. > > It’s possible that there’s nothing more than the literal words - that there’s nothing in the indictment about any Americans knowingly participating - but it certainly suggests that they don’t really think any Americans actually did, or there would be no real reason to stress this. And if this is the correct interpretation, then this is something of a development, because the hacking and dissemination of DNC emails was one of the most promising (such as it was) prospects for collusion. This is, literally, the #1 talking point for all the bots on Twitter. Amazing to see it pop up here so quickly. Seriously, FP, you expect us to believe that a statement exonerating all American involvement in the entire collusion matter will be buried in these indictments? Or is it more rational to believe it means what it actually says, that these indictments do not allege participation… well, knowing participation… by any American? ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5440 "2018-07-13T17:16:59Z")
> [@GrandWino](#): > > Who gave the order? Just kidding we know it was Putin. C’mon now - PantsOnHead asked Putin twice if he was behind it, and he denied it \*\*\*both \*\*\*times. What more could you ask for? ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5441 "2018-07-13T17:18:49Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The interesting thing to me was that (as in the prior Russian indictment) [Rosenstein said](https://www.npr.org/2018/07/13/628773789/deputy-attorney-general-rod-rosenstein-unveils-new-hacking-charges-in-dnc-case) “There is no allegation in the indictment that any American participated knowingly in the GRU cyberattacks”. > > It’s possible that there’s nothing more than the literal words - that there’s nothing in the indictment about any Americans knowingly participating - but it certainly suggests that they don’t really think any Americans actually did, or there would be no real reason to stress this. And if this is the correct interpretation, then this is something of a development, because the hacking and dissemination of DNC emails was one of the most promising (such as it was) prospects for collusion. Idiot, I don’t think you are actually a Russian bot, but you imitate one well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=271) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=273)