# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 281
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5602 "2018-07-17T19:15:59Z")
New tweet from Tom Winter, NBC News investigations reporter based in New York: > [@](#): > > NEW: The Special Counsel’s Office notifies the court that they will seek immunity for up to 5 people to testify under conditions of immunity in the upcoming trial against Paul Manafort in Virginia. > > They say these people have not been publicly named before in the case. > ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5603 "2018-07-17T19:18:51Z")
[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-17/mueller-asks-manafort-judge-to-give-immunity-to-five-witnesses](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-17/mueller-asks-manafort-judge-to-give-immunity-to-five-witnesses) "Special Counsel Robert Mueller asked a judge to give immunity to five people who may testify at next week’s bank-fraud trial of former Trump Campaign chairman Paul Manafort. Mueller didn’t identify the five witnesses in a court filing Tuesday in federal court in Alexandria, Virginia. He said the five are likely to invoke their right against self-incrimination if they don’t receive immunity. " ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5604 "2018-07-17T19:19:56Z")
Ninjaaaa’d!!! ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5605 "2018-07-17T19:21:42Z")
I think [this](https://www.gq.com/story/what-putin-has-on-trump)is a pretty good analysis from _GQ_ of “What Putin has on Trump”. > [@Julia Ioffe](#): > > After Trump and Putin met in Helsinki, many pundits and politicians struggled to understand what it is they saw, to rationalize it, to explain it away, to speculate on what kinds of \*kompromat \*the Russians could have on Trump, when the answer—like infidelity or death—was staring them, us, in the face. Yes, Putin has something on Trump: He helped him win. That’s the _kompromat_. > > \ > > Of course, Trump denies it now. It’s hard to imagine even a politician less thin-skinned and prideful than him saying, essentially, “Yes, you’re right. My victory was illegitimate, and therefore so is my presidency.” There is no other way to frame this: This is, and has always been, about the legitimacy of his presidency. And no one, especially not a sitting president who values the idea of himself above all else, would cede that ground. > > \ > > And of course Putin denies it. Going into the summit, friends in the White House pool and TV hosts asked what Putin would do to Trump in their meeting. Would he try to intimidate him, like he did by bringing his black Labrador Konni to his meetings with the notoriously dog-phobic Angela Merkel? Would he push on all those financial ties Trump’s sons have bragged about over the years? Of course not. In the end, the only approach that works with Trump is flattery. > > \ > > And if Putin were smart, which he clearly is, he would have flattered Trump exactly the way he needed to be in their tête-à-tête: by echoing his denials. _Of course we didn’t interfere, Donald. You won fair and square. You did it all by your genius self_. > > The _kompromat_ is the election result itself. (italics in original. ETA: which you’d be sure to see if the Quote box hadn’t italicized everything for me ☹ ) I’ve gone back and forth on whether the notorious “pee tape” exists, or whether Russia has Trump by the financial balls, or a variety of other explanations. But Ioffe’s explanation strikes me as pretty persuasive. If Putin could, at his whim, destroy Trump’s legitimacy, that would be a powerful motivator for Trump to kneel before Zod in Helsinki. The simplest explanations aren’t **always** right, but I’m thinking it coul well be in this case. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5606 "2018-07-17T19:26:47Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > New tweet from Tom Winter, NBC News investigations reporter based in New York: > > [https://twitter.com/Tom\_Winter/status/1019296274225553408?s=19](https://twitter.com/Tom_Winter/status/1019296274225553408?s=19) My favorite bit: “They say these people have not been publicly named before in the case.” Hee hee. So Mueller has five or more people up his sleeve that we were totally unaware of? This is gonna be great. > [@JohnT](#): > > [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-17/mueller-asks-manafort-judge-to-give-immunity-to-five-witnesses](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-17/mueller-asks-manafort-judge-to-give-immunity-to-five-witnesses) > > "Special Counsel Robert Mueller asked a judge to give immunity to five people who may testify at next week’s bank-fraud trial of former Trump Campaign chairman Paul Manafort. > > Mueller didn’t identify the five witnesses in a court filing Tuesday in federal court in Alexandria, Virginia. He said the five are likely to invoke their right against self-incrimination if they don’t receive immunity. " Wow, I didn’t realize the trial started next week. Looks like I won’t be getting any work done the rest of the summer. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5607 "2018-07-17T19:30:42Z")
[Weird How Everyone President Donald Trump Knows Does Crimes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFMRJSPDr2k), isn’t it? That video is from 4 November 2017, btw. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5608 "2018-07-17T19:31:34Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > I think [this](https://www.gq.com/story/what-putin-has-on-trump)is a pretty good analysis from _GQ_ of “What Putin has on Trump”. > > (italics in original) > > I’ve gone back and forth on whether the notorious “pee tape” exists, or whether Russia has Trump by the financial balls, or a variety of other explanations. But Ioffe’s explanation strikes me as pretty persuasive. If Putin could, at his whim, destroy Trump’s legitimacy, that would be a powerful motivator for Trump to kneel before Zod in Helsinki. The simplest explanations aren’t **always** right, but I’m thinking it coul well be in this case. The question is whether even solid proof from Putin that thump’s victory was due to Russian interference would “destroy Trump’s [sic] legitimacy.” I read something this this morning in the [Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/07/16/this-c-span-caller-thinks-russia-meddled-and-shes-glad-about-it/?utm_term=.0dc01c367ae0): > [@](#): > > Just a few minutes after President Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin emerged from their closed-door meeting Monday, and before their news conference, a caller from Connecticut connected to C-SPAN’s “Washington Journal.” > > “I’ll try not to sound too awful, but I want to thank the Russians for interfering with our election to stop Hillary Clinton from becoming president,” said the caller. > > That’s right — a caller on a U.S. television show thanking a foreign adversary for influencing the democratic process. > > The caller seemed to be a big Trump supporter and went on to say that Clinton “has got illusions [sic] of grandeur, and so has her husband.” > > … > > But the C-SPAN caller — who clearly hated the idea of a Hillary Clinton presidency — seemed to take it as a positive for the candidate she supported. She didn’t just excuse foreign intervention in the election; she openly applauded it. > > When asked to clarify whether she thought Russian election interference gave the presidency to Trump, the caller responded: “Yes, because the Russians interfered. I mean, what would we do with Hillary in that White House?” > … \ She doesn’t give a fuck about legitimacy. Hell, Putin probably should just take credit for thump’s win and maybe Congress will give him a medal and the MAGAbots can hold a rally at the nearest Wal-Mart. (After they clear out all those brown rugrats.) ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5609 "2018-07-17T19:35:07Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > The question is whether even solid proof from Putin that thump’s victory was due to Russian interference would “destroy Trump’s [sic] legitimacy.” I read something this this morning in the [Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/07/16/this-c-span-caller-thinks-russia-meddled-and-shes-glad-about-it/?utm_term=.0dc01c367ae0): > \ She doesn’t give a fuck about legitimacy. > > Hell, Putin probably should just take credit for thump’s win and maybe Congress will give him a medal and the MAGAbots can hold a rally at the nearest Wal-Mart. (After they clear out all those brown rugrats.) That is, sadly, a good point. At today’s press appearance, Trump had typewritten remarks. A photo of them shows that he wrote on the page, in large black marker, “THERE WAS NO COLUSION” (misspelling in original). I guess he didn’t want to forget his line. > ---
**Author:** ![tingbudong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tingbudong/32/520_2.png) [@tingbudong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tingbudong)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5610 "2018-07-17T19:37:42Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > The question is whether even solid proof from Putin that thump’s victory was due to Russian interference would “destroy Trump’s [sic] legitimacy.” I read something this this morning in the [Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/07/16/this-c-span-caller-thinks-russia-meddled-and-shes-glad-about-it/?utm_term=.0dc01c367ae0): > \ She doesn’t give a fuck about legitimacy. > > Hell, Putin probably should just take credit for thump’s win and maybe Congress will give him a medal and the MAGAbots can hold a rally at the nearest Wal-Mart. (After they clear out all those brown rugrats.) Good God. How does an Nation even rebound from that kind of citizen attitude (which could be shared many)? Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5611 "2018-07-17T19:38:31Z")
> [@tingbudong](#): > > Good God. How does an Nation even rebound from that kind of citizen attitude (which could be shared many)? No one knows yet; let’s hope we find out. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5612 "2018-07-17T19:43:24Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > I think [this](https://www.gq.com/story/what-putin-has-on-trump)is a pretty good analysis from _GQ_ of “What Putin has on Trump”. > > (italics in original. ETA: which you’d be sure to see if the Quote box hadn’t italicized everything for me ☹ ) > > I’ve gone back and forth on whether the notorious “pee tape” exists, or whether Russia has Trump by the financial balls, or a variety of other explanations. But Ioffe’s explanation strikes me as pretty persuasive. If Putin could, at his whim, destroy Trump’s legitimacy, that would be a powerful motivator for Trump to kneel before Zod in Helsinki. The simplest explanations aren’t **always** right, but I’m thinking it coul well be in this case. I think its a combination. I think Putin helped Trump win with the agreement that certain financial transactions would be forgotten. With the agreement that perhaps trump could do him a ‘favor’ sometime. Trump loved the idea of ‘absolute’ power (or so he thought) and millions in debt forgotten. That’s my theory anyway. It lines up pretty well with all the financial problems he has in the states. Claims about how much business they do with Russia (made by Don Jr. and I think Trump as well), and about those tax returns. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5613 "2018-07-17T21:21:06Z")
Mueller has petitioned for [immunity](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/17/mueller-asks-for-immunity-for-five-witnesses-in-manafort-case.html) for five witnesses against Manafort. The motion does not name the five people, but it sure as hell will be interesting to find out who they when his trial starts in a couple weeks. And also what the hell they need immunity for. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5614 "2018-07-17T21:27:30Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > Wow, I didn’t realize the trial started next week. Looks like I won’t be getting any work done the rest of the summer. Isn’t the judge in the Manafort case the guy who’s known for a super-speedy process? I think I saw that he said the trial should take a week. Am I thinking of the same one? So it could be done before the end of July. Your August will be productive (unless some other shitstorm hits). ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5615 "2018-07-17T21:33:47Z")
Under the circumstances, one can hardly blame them, even if they were only witnesses to a crime, they are obliged to report the crime. Plus, they don’t know what he’s got, nobody does. Bob Mueller doesn’t play his cards close to the vest, he has them stapled to his tits. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5616 "2018-07-17T21:35:20Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > … > So it could be done before the end of July. Your August will be productive **(unless some other shitstorm hits)**. My bold. Ha-ha! Good one! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5617 "2018-07-17T21:50:47Z")
So, my son, the Err Apparent, and his friend were over and we were talking. About how if _she_ were in the Oval Orifice, we would probably be bitching about how her policies weren’t liberal enough. And his buddy chimes in with “Well, least we wouldn’t feel like we had to watch the news everyday!”. The kids are all right. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5618 "2018-07-18T00:21:35Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > Isn’t the judge in the Manafort case the guy who’s known for a super-speedy process? I think I saw that he said the trial should take a week. Am I thinking of the same one? > > So it could be done before the end of July. Your August will be productive (unless some other shitstorm hits). You are thinking of the correct judge. Judge T. S. Ellis III of the Eastern District of Virginia. Trial date is set for July 25th. I heard that Mueller’s team gave a trial time estimate of 3 weeks. The judge gave them 2 weeks, saying he thought the case could be tried in 1 week – so thought a 2-week time estimate was generous. ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5619 "2018-07-18T01:18:22Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, my son, the Err Apparent, and his friend were over and we were talking. About how if _she_ were in the Oval Orifice, we would probably be bitching about how her policies weren’t liberal enough. And his buddy chimes in with “Well, least we wouldn’t feel like we had to watch the news everyday!”. > > The kids are all right. I was telling a friend the other day that when Obama was in office, unless there was some big deal thing going on, I had no idea what he was up to. I knew he was taking care of business but how he was going about it didn’t really cross my mind. Now I feel bombarded with Trump shit every single day. And I can’t escape it. It’s exhausting. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5620 "2018-07-18T01:34:23Z")
> [@aurora\_maire](#): > > Now I feel bombarded with Trump shit every single day. And I can’t escape it. It’s exhausting. Yeah, me too. And I keep remembering not to make any major decisions while exhausted. So, not moving to a treehouse in Costa Rica… yet. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5621 "2018-07-18T01:37:45Z")
Here is a site to keep you updated on a daily basis. > **[Biden News Today](https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com)** > > Today’s essential guide to the daily shock and awe in national politics. Read in moderation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=280) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=282)