# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 285
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5682 "2018-07-19T15:38:41Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > 32 minutes… check! > > Insult-filled… check! > > 192 words… getting better, Schmitty! We could go back and forth a bit until you’re reduced to your customary “:sniff:” responses, but I don’t think I have the interest at this time. Sage Rat did not distinguish himself with that post, but he’s light years ahead of you. (He does owe you some loyalty, I’ll grant, in that the biggest reason he comes off so sagaciously in these threads is that he’s in the company of people like you.) ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5683 "2018-07-19T15:40:06Z")
Oh, F-P, I don’t think this relationship will ever work. It’s not me… it’s you. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5684 "2018-07-19T16:14:15Z")
@ **BeenJammin** — What do you think about #5658 ? > [@BeenJammin](#): > > OMG! The Russians are spying on us, and have agents actively subverting our government and political system. > > What will they think of next?! :rolleyes: > > If it wasn’t such a popular topic for all the wrong reasons, I suspect some posters around here were completely unaware THIS TYPE STUFF HAS BEEN ON UNABATED FOR ABOUT 60-SOME FUCKING YEARS. > > My, oh my - what IS an FBI to do. Hmmmm… I wonder what your point is. The U.S. meddles in foreign elections, and hopes it doesn’t get caught. So does Russia. But Americans (should) want to stop Russia from meddling on our soil. Russians caught on U.S. soil can be arrested as spies or sabateurs, just as CIA agents are in personal danger when they try to subvert elections overseas. Nobody “blames” Putin … or the CIA! They’re doing what’s in their nature. But most Americans (not you?) want the FBI to defend us against such exploits. Your post seems to say that since a previous election was interfered with, this one doesn’t matter? Do I have that right? I suppose if Trump shot someone dead on Second Avenue in broad daylight you’d excuse him, saying that Cain killed Abel 6000 years ago? Did I summarize your views? If not, perhaps you should elucidate. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5685 "2018-07-19T16:25:35Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > It doesn’t make any difference which Russian met with who. But there’s a huge gap between meeting with a Russian - including those who have been linked to or are even parts of the Russian government, and those whose duties turn out to include spying - and being a part of the corrupt and criminal politics back in Russia. And to simply conflate met with such-and-such Russian, no matter who that Russian is, with any and all corruption that such Russian is linked to is not valid. And when any and all such meetings with Russians are being interpreted as being part of Russian government corruption, then that feeds the notion that this is a witch-hunt. They colluded with Russians, but only with good Russians. Well, I guess that explanation has the advantage that it hasn’t been tried before. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5686 "2018-07-19T16:27:38Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Bob Mueller doesn’t play his cards close to the vest, he has them stapled to his tits. **'luci** , your wordplay is a continual delight. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5687 "2018-07-19T16:32:01Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > They colluded with Russians, but only with good Russians. > > Well, I guess that explanation has the advantage that it hasn’t been tried before. They’re likely White Russians. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5688 "2018-07-19T16:50:00Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > @ **BeenJammin** — What do you think about #5658 ? > > I wonder what your point is. The U.S. meddles in foreign elections, and hopes it doesn’t get caught. So does Russia. But Americans (should) want to stop Russia from meddling on our soil. Russians caught on U.S. soil can be arrested as spies or sabateurs, just as CIA agents are in personal danger when they try to subvert elections overseas. > > Nobody “blames” Putin … or the CIA! They’re doing what’s in their nature. But most Americans (not you?) want the FBI to defend us against such exploits. > > Your post seems to say that since a previous election was interfered with, this one doesn’t matter? Do I have that right? I suppose if Trump shot someone dead on Second Avenue in broad daylight you’d excuse him, saying that Cain killed Abel 6000 years ago? > > Did I summarize your views? If not, perhaps you should elucidate. I wish there was an ignore function that would allow me to not only ignore racist idiot trolls, but also posts by intelligent posters who for some strange reason of their own enjoy feeding racist idiot trolls. One can always dream… ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5689 "2018-07-19T16:54:25Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > @ **BeenJammin** — What do you think about #5658 ? It supports MY position on the whole fiasco, generally speaking. Please don’t ask what MY position actually is. I’m only elaborating on my thought process here - not what did or did not happen, who did what or any other of the kajillion accusations, threats, rumors or innuendo being thrown around. > [@septimus](#): > > I wonder what your point is. My point regarding this particular detail is that well-placed, high-ranking government officials have a pretty good idea what is going on, always have, always will. It’s their JOB. The rest of the unwashed masses, myself included, are left to speculate on the crumbs of information strewn about, often deliberately for the purpose of misinformation. ANYONE outside the highest levels of the intelligence community who believes they have it figured out is just blowing smoke, including every poster in this thread with very few exceptions. > [@septimus](#): > > Your post seems to say that since a previous election was interfered with, this one doesn’t matter? Do I have that right? No, absolutely not! Just understand that the list of things/people you/we actually know to be true pales in comparison to the list of things and people involved we know NOTHING about. The Internet cloak-and-dagger business has been around a LONG time. Funny some are just lately becoming aware of it. Ever wonder about that? You know - the stuff that might be out there or happened in the past you have no clue about? There’s alot more of it out there than most self-ascribed pundits will ever know because they are too bent on proving themselves right and controlling the narrative. The inanity of people considering matters of this magnitude, involving international relations with their mind made up beforehand is just incredible to me. People familiar with the intelligence community in this country understand that we will probably NEVER know exactly how this all went down. Even the court cases that don’t immediately get thrown out on technical or administrative grounds are unlikely to shed much light. You go right on playing your little minds games, while I sit back and watch how it all plays out. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5690 "2018-07-19T16:55:58Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > **'luci** , your wordplay is a continual delight. 😃 Good thing Mueller is a male with small pecs - those cards would literally disappear on anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5691 "2018-07-19T16:58:23Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > They colluded with Russians, but only with good Russians. > > Well, I guess that explanation has the advantage that it hasn’t been tried before. No idea how you extracted that from my post. But however you did it, I’d rather stick with what I said, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5692 "2018-07-19T17:13:26Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The post that I quoted didn’t specify any particular Russians, and it made no difference to the point that I was making. > > It doesn’t make any difference which Russian met with who. But there’s a huge gap between meeting with a Russian - including those who have been linked to or are even parts of the Russian government, and those whose duties turn out to include spying - and being a part of the corrupt and criminal politics back in Russia. And to simply conflate met with such-and-such Russian, no matter who that Russian is, with any and all corruption that such Russian is linked to is not valid. And when any and all such meetings with Russians are being interpreted as being part of Russian government corruption, then that feeds the notion that this is a witch-hunt. > > I understand the temptation for you to indulge in this sort of thing but you should try to rise above it. You can do better. “Any and all meetings with Russians”? I think you meant to write “Any all meetings with Russians which were arranged on phone calls which Spanish authorities obtained a warrant to wiretap, and then felt that the information obtained by such wiretaps would be of interest to the FBI”. Or are those parts irrelevant because the Spanish police and the FBI are all part of the partisan witch hunt?:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5693 "2018-07-19T17:30:22Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > “Any and all meetings with Russians”? I think you meant to write “Any all meetings with Russians which were arranged on phone calls which Spanish authorities obtained a warrant to wiretap, and then felt that the information obtained by such wiretaps would be of interest to the FBI”. > > Or are those parts irrelevant because the Spanish police and the FBI are all part of the partisan witch hunt?:rolleyes: One of the problems with discussions of this sort is that there are a lot of such meetings and contacts being discussed, some of which can be categorized one way and some the other. I don’t think anyone to this point specified that we’re talking only about meetings monitored by Spanish wiretaps etc. But if you want to focus on such instance, then yes, the same applies to such meetings. The Spanish govt and FBI etc. monitor calls by Russians they’re spying on. That doesn’t mean that anyone who those Russians speak to is colluding with those Russians. The way spying works is that a spy tries to establish as many contacts as he can. If he can get those people to collude with him that’s all for the better, but even if not he’s hoping he can gain some understanding even without collusion, or can get introduced via them to other people who might be helpful and so on. This is all elementary. FTR, I’m absolutely not saying that the entire Russia investigation is a witch hunt. I support the investigation and have been consistent in this regard throughout these threads. But I am saying that the notion of finding some Russian government-connected guys or spies and then treating everyone that these people have come into contact with as being a colluder and fellow spy is classic McCarthyist witch-hunting, and to the extent that you introduce this element into the assessment you’re lending support to those who would see the investigation in that light. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5694 "2018-07-19T17:33:10Z")
IOW he’s just keeping it reals. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5695 "2018-07-19T17:39:37Z")
[Some Dems want to subpoena Trump’s translator](https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/17/politics/trump-interpreter-testify-congress/index.html)to testify about what was said during his meeting with Putin? Can they do that? Is there any precedent? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5696 "2018-07-19T17:46:25Z")
I’m against that one. The translator is a functionary, an employee, it is entirely unfair for this much pressure to be applied. Further, since we have no evidence to rely upon. Are we being told the straight truth, or no? And, of course, somebody on the Trump team must have considered this, so the political reliability of the translator chosen was likely a factor in that choice. _Trés_ duh, _mais non?_ ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5697 "2018-07-19T18:05:16Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I’m against that one. The translator is a functionary, an employee, it is entirely unfair for this much pressure to be applied. Further, since we have no evidence to rely upon. Are we being told the straight truth, or no? And, of course, somebody on the Trump team must have considered this, so the political reliability of the translator chosen was likely a factor in that choice. > > _Trés_ duh, _mais non?_ You don’t want to interview the only american witness to the “boudoir” meeting between our president and Putin? Really, there are no words. It’s a good thing that Mueller is being “fair” to everyone, and all of his witnesses have good “political reliability” or else we’d really be in trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5698 "2018-07-19T18:10:06Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > [Some Dems want to subpoena Trump’s translator](https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/17/politics/trump-interpreter-testify-congress/index.html)to testify about what was said during his meeting with Putin? Can they do that? Is there any precedent? No idea, but I’ll bet you anything that if they do get the translator to talk that they will say that they were told to sit in the corner and turn the other way. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5699 "2018-07-19T18:21:52Z")
IANAL or anything, but ISTM that trying to subpoena Trump’s translator to report on his conversation with Putin would have “executive privilege” screaming all over it. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5700 "2018-07-19T18:23:21Z")
Yeah, I don’t like that subpoena either. The President needs to be able to speak to foreign leaders confidentially and with a translator he can trust. If this were to go forward, then I could see Trump relying on the Russians to provide all translation, and that would certainly work well. Honey translating for Mao comes to mind. Plus, I wonder how much the average translator retains? I’m certain they’d remember “I’ve still got the bank records on the money you owe us”, but details of things might not be retained? ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5701 "2018-07-19T18:36:31Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > The President needs to be able to speak to foreign leaders confidentially and with a translator he can trust. With no record, and no accountability? Why? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=284) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=286)