# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 287
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5722 "2018-07-19T21:41:38Z")
“Harder, faster, more!” ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5723 "2018-07-19T22:26:29Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > Maybe allowing hordes of zealous sycophants and enemies alike the opportunity to misquote, misinterpret or otherwise simply read way too much into it is sometimes just a bad idea. Good point. Our government should never tell us anything that it is doing, as there may be someone or other that misinterprets it. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5724 "2018-07-19T22:44:36Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > “Harder, faster, more!” It must have been so good for Donald that he’s apparently thinking about asking Vlad over for a [del]date[/del] summit at the White House: [Donald Trump asks to invite Putin to White House after days of turmoil](https://globalnews.ca/news/4341280/donald-trump-vladimir-putin-russian-interrogate-u-s-citizens/) ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5725 "2018-07-19T23:00:44Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Can any of Trump’s defenders take a crack at that. Feel free to speculate. What could Donald Trump have said that was meant for Putin’s ears only? I’m guessing that the best any defender could come up with would be rooted in the ‘Trump is So Brilliant That We Can’t Fathom His Choices, But They are Totally Brilliant’ theory of why Trump does moronic stuff. As for the rest of us: it’s perfectly reasonable to assume that Trump gave Putin US-intelligence secrets. He gave the Russian ambassador secrets, so why not Vlad? And Putin would want that information–the names of moles in the Kremlin, etc. And hopefully Putin rewarded Trump with a nice pat on the head. On that topic, by the way: the news that Trump was fully briefed on Putin’s election-interference back before the Inauguration has been posted, but not the information on the Russians mentioned in those briefings-to-Trump, who subsequently died: > [@](#): > > … Among the recent deaths were six Russian diplomats. Some of the deaths appeared natural and governments have ruled out foul play. > In some cases, though, questions remain. That’s either because the facts have changed over time, details are hard to come by, or the deaths are still under investigation… > **[Nine months, nine prominent Russians dead | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2017/03/24/europe/dead-russians/index.html)** > > Nine Russians – all in key positions in Russian politics – have wound up dead in recent months. Now conspiracy theories are swirling. Hands up if you believe that Trump would simply _never_ divulge to Putin the names of those mentioned in the US intelligence briefing, as having provided information that helped US intelligence put together their report. Anyone? Of course this is, as far as we in the public are concerned, speculative. (Much of the information is in the recent New York Times story “From the Start, Trump has Muddied a Clear Message: Putin Interfered”: [https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/.../trump-intelligence-russian-election-meddling-.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/.../trump-intelligence-russian-election-meddling-.html) Developments on this story will be interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5726 "2018-07-19T23:34:21Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I’m against that one. The translator is a functionary, an employee, it is entirely unfair for this much pressure to be applied. Further, since we have no evidence to rely upon. Are we being told the straight truth, or no? And, of course, somebody on the Trump team must have considered this, so the political reliability of the translator chosen was likely a factor in that choice. > > _Trés_ duh, _mais non?_ I’m against it too, at least for now. I think it would set a dangerous precedent that would come back to bite the next responsible adult President. But it might have to be part of next weeks episode. Because Putin may start publicly demanding that Trump deliver whatever stupid treasonous thing he promised - like handing over Browder and McFaul or ordering Mueller to turn over information to Putin’s cyber security task force. Putin could actually claim that Trump agreed to pretty much anything. And he might. So at some point finding out what Trump really promised might become a serious national security issue. But even then, I think it would ( and should ) be done privately and very discreetly. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5727 "2018-07-19T23:58:50Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Putin could actually claim that Trump agreed to pretty much anything. And he might. So at some point finding out what Trump really promised might become a serious national security issue. I can’t fathom how anyone could put any confidence in anything Trump said to anyone, even another head of government, especially without vast amounts of corroboration, and even then he’d lie about it. I mean, this is the guy who now claims he meant “wouldn’t” when he clearly said “would” and clearly meant “would”. Putin was probably wired for sound, so that might turn out interesting. Not to be outdone, of course, Trump was also secretly equipped. He had his lucky “Quackers the Duck” Beanie Baby that he likes to fondle during tense moments. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5728 "2018-07-20T00:04:56Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I’m guessing that the best any defender could come up with would be rooted in the ‘Trump is So Brilliant That We Can’t Fathom His Choices, But They are Totally Brilliant’ theory of why Trump does moronic stuff. > > As for the rest of us: it’s perfectly reasonable to assume that Trump gave Putin US-intelligence secrets. He gave the Russian ambassador secrets, so why not Vlad? And Putin would want that information–the names of moles in the Kremlin, etc. And hopefully Putin rewarded Trump with a nice pat on the head. I remember during the Iran-Contra debacle that no one knew whether Reagan had ordered the sale of arms to Iran, or whether he was just oblivious to what was being done by his staff. And because no one could decide which rotten thing he had done, he wasn’t held accountable for either one. I don’t assume that Trump gave Putin intelligence secrets. I don’t assume anything. That’s why I invited speculation. What is there that Trump could have said, or planned to do, that Vladimir Putin needed to know about, but literally no one else in the world did? What could it even possibly be? Vladimir Putin is the guy that the U.S. government usually tries to keep secrets _from_. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5729 "2018-07-20T00:29:28Z")
I think you’re right to ask that question of Trump defenders, Robot Arm. Because obviously they won’t be able to come up with anything. There’s _no_ reasonable or respectable topic that Trump could have needed to privately convey to Putin. The only possible answer is something criminal, despicable, and/or nefarious. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5730 "2018-07-20T00:38:13Z")
I understand the argument about not setting a precedent. I’m even somewhat sympathetic to the argument. But at the same time I have to wonder if this type of reasoning isn’t what causes a democracy to become a fascist state. Which is the lesser evil here; setting a precedent and thereby getting needed information or not obtaining the information in order to avoid setting a precedent? Neither is ideal but, like it or not, one has to be chosen. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5731 "2018-07-20T02:36:04Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I understand the argument about not setting a precedent. I’m even somewhat sympathetic to the argument. But at the same time I have to wonder if this type of reasoning isn’t what causes a democracy to become a fascist state. > > Which is the lesser evil here; setting a precedent and thereby getting needed information or not obtaining the information in order to avoid setting a precedent? Neither is ideal but, like it or not, one has to be chosen. But it’s not a new precedent. As was pointed out above, Ken Starr subpoenaed Clinton’s Secret Service agents. Not exactly the same thing, but close enough. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5732 "2018-07-20T03:32:28Z")
They could probably skip the translators altogether next time. All the English Putin really needs is “Don’t neglect the balls.” ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5733 "2018-07-20T03:39:19Z")
Speaking of balls, finally [a Republican who found his](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/opinion/trump-russia-putin-republican-congress.html). Editorial - New York Times Kudos to Will Hurd. > [@](#): > > Over the course of my career as an undercover officer in the C.I.A., I saw Russian intelligence manipulate many people. I never thought I would see the day when an American president would be one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5734 "2018-07-20T04:45:49Z")
They clang when he walks, no doubt. Good job, Mr. Hurd. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5735 "2018-07-20T05:47:05Z")
> **[Republicans Block Move To Subpoena Interpreter From Trump-Putin Summit](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/republicans-block-move-to-subpoena-helsinki-summit-interpreter_n_5b50b75de4b0de86f48ac6d5/amp)** > > House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes led Republicans in a party line vote to table the motion. > [@](#): > > House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes led Republicans in a party line vote to table the motion. > … > Republicans on the House Intelligence Committee have blocked a move to subpoena the interpreter from the Helsinki summit to testify about the private talks between President Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5736 "2018-07-20T06:23:55Z")
Hurd seems like he wants to try this being a Republican with a conscience thing, but the reality is, there are no good Republicans. Period. The R’s with a conscience should just fucking retire or switch parties. Just like you can’t support Hitler and be clean, just like you can’t support Putin and be clean, just like you can’t support Chavez and Maduro and be clean, you cannot support Donald Trump and enjoy a clean reputation. If you support Trump, you’re supporting the worst shit that’s ever happened in this country. Call me a divider - I don’t give a fuck. I’m not the one calling our intelligence agencies fake. I’m not the one creating internment camps for refugee children. I’m not the one who advocates political fellatio with a foreign adversary. Dear Congressman Hurd: either become a Democrat, or quit politics. Those are your choices. Anything outside of that, and you’re an enabler of fuckwittery - and fuck you. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5737 "2018-07-20T06:47:28Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Hurd seems like he wants to try this being a Republican with a conscience thing, but the reality is, there are no good Republicans. Period. > > The R’s with a conscience should just fucking retire or switch parties. > > Just like you can’t support Hitler and be clean, just like you can’t support Putin and be clean, just like you can’t support Chavez and Maduro and be clean, you cannot support Donald Trump and enjoy a clean reputation. If you support Trump, you’re supporting the worst shit that’s ever happened in this country. > > Call me a divider - I don’t give a fuck. I’m not the one calling our intelligence agencies fake. I’m not the one creating internment camps for refugee children. I’m not the one who advocates political fellatio with a foreign adversary. > > Dear Congressman Hurd: either become a Democrat, or quit politics. Those are your choices. Anything outside of that, and you’re an enabler of fuckwittery - and fuck you. I disagree. I don’t put party before country, and I don’t put party before person, either. Just because Hurd has an R after his name doesn’t make him a Trump supporter. If he’s willing to speak out against Trump when he crosses ethical or other lines, good for him. I disagree with lots of Republican policies, but someone can support those policies and still call out Trump for his lies, behavior, and stupidity. Now, I’ve never even heard of Hurd before this, so he may have supported some of Trump’s previous actions. Maybe Trump just now crossed the line of what Hurd is willing to accept. He did speak up, and that’s something. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5738 "2018-07-20T07:12:27Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I disagree. I don’t put party before country, and I don’t put party before person, either. Just because Hurd has an R after his name doesn’t make him a Trump supporter. If he’s willing to speak out against Trump when he crosses ethical or other lines, good for him. I disagree with lots of Republican policies, but someone can support those policies and still call out Trump for his lies, behavior, and stupidity. > > Now, I’ve never even heard of Hurd before this, so he may have supported some of Trump’s previous actions. Maybe Trump just now crossed the line of what Hurd is willing to accept. He did speak up, and that’s something. If your party is the Nazi party, you fight it like a case of MRSA that’s threatening your very existence. I’m telling you: you don’t know what you’re dealing with. **Our democracy is is mortal danger.** The reason I’ve been called chicken little over the past 18-24 months is because, frankly, most Americans don’t understand what an authoritarian regime and culture looks like. I’ve traveled and lived outside America, and I’ve been to countries where dictatorships reign. I’ve studied this topic. We’re perilously close to something other than a democracy. Call me chicken little - I don’t give a fuck. My predictions of authoritarianism have basically not been disproven, and we’re extremely close to living the ultimate nightmare. Whistle in the dark if you wish, but facts are stubborn things. I’ve even been labeled “Prophet Pisspants” but I god damn guarantee you: the person who labeled me that, knows now that I was not joking. They are now the ones pissing in their pants, because they know I’m speaking truth. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5739 "2018-07-20T10:21:24Z")
> [@OttoDaFe](#): > > Subject to correction (I’m going from memory), my understanding is that for this sort of meeting there would normally be advisers in the room along with the President: Pompeo, perhaps, or Bolton. One-on-one meetings between heads of state would be much shorter and not expected to discuss policy in depth or come to agreements — “How are the missus and the kids?” or somesuch. How long was the private meeting between Putin and Trump in Helsinki? I tried to Google this and saw “Trump Meets With Putin Alone For 2 Hours.” :eek: Is that correct? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5740 "2018-07-20T11:13:08Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Speaking of balls, finally [a Republican who found his](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/opinion/trump-russia-putin-republican-congress.html). Editorial - New York Times > > Kudos to Will Hurd. Note that he never calls Trump out by name but felt it necessary to call out Obama twice. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5741 "2018-07-20T11:48:32Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > How long was the private meeting between Putin and Trump in Helsinki? I tried to Google this and saw “Trump Meets With Putin Alone For 2 Hours.” :eek: Is that correct? That’s what all the news outlets were reporting. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=286) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=288)