# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 304
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6062 "2018-07-31T04:34:34Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I am tired, so pardon me if I’m missing something here, but can we just stop with the idea that Mueller is investigating collusion? The word appears nowhere in his letter from Rosenstein, and any arguments which imply that Mueller is investigating “collusion” are just factually wrong. > > [DocumentCloud](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3726408-Rosenstein-letter-appointing-Mueller-special.html) This is silly nitpicking. One of the things Mueller is investigating is, “coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump.” This is synonymous with collusion. Mueller is investigating collusion, among other things. There is lots and lots of publicly available evidence of collusion. Mueller has all that publicly available evidence and more. Of course he is investigating collusion. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6063 "2018-07-31T09:36:47Z")
If there was a second meeting, certainly Mueller knows about it already. Whatever leaks come out from crazy Rudy are old news to Mueller. All we know is the tip of the iceberg, Mueller knows every inch of what is below water. Whether you call it collusion or conspiracy is a matter of semantics, what will be presented to the courts are violations of actual laws and those will be what ultimately ends this train wreck of an administration. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6064 "2018-07-31T10:26:14Z")
According to Giuliani, according to Cohen, Gates was present at the meeting that didn’t exist, so Gates would presumably have given Mueller whatever all information there is about the meeting, if it existed. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6065 "2018-07-31T11:08:07Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I am tired, so pardon me if I’m missing something here, but can we just stop with the idea that Mueller is investigating collusion? The word appears nowhere in his letter from Rosenstein, and any arguments which imply that Mueller is investigating “collusion” are just factually wrong. > > [DocumentCloud](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3726408-Rosenstein-letter-appointing-Mueller-special.html) I didn’t say he was; in fact, that was the point I was trying to make, although I wasn’t explicitly saying so. He’s not investigating “collusion” because there is no such crime defined in criminal code, but at the same time, I think that we have a general understanding that there has been political “collusion” (or whatever we want to call it) between a faction of our government and the Russian military. The point is that, even though “collusion” is no crime, it is hard to have said political “collusion” between these two elements without violating actual criminal statutes, an example of which I provided. Mueller’s not investigating political collusion - has no standing to do so. But he’s investigating crimes that make political collusion possible, like conspiracy to commit crimes against the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6066 "2018-07-31T11:40:44Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Are you suggesting that Trump walk naked through the streets, accompanied by a nun ringing a bell and saying “shame!”? I’m all for pelting him with garbage but I’m willing to grant clemency on the naked part. Don’t kid yourself, Trump would LOVE it! A whole parade, just him and his dick, (#therealtrumptower) with the entire nation in attendance.The biggest crowd EVER! NO ONE showed up to throw rotten tomatoes at Obama’s crotch. SAD! ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6067 "2018-07-31T11:53:32Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Don’t kid yourself, Trump would LOVE it! A whole parade, just him and his dick, (#therealtrumptower) with the entire nation in attendance.The biggest crowd EVER! NO ONE showed up to throw rotten tomatoes at Obama’s crotch. SAD! I rather doubt Donald would wish to call such attention to his shortcomings. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6068 "2018-07-31T12:34:21Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I rather doubt Donald would wish to call such attention to his shortcomings. He thinks he’s attractive. He thinks his hair looks normal. He has zero self-awareness. Much like inaugurations, he thinks it’s the biggest one ever, just because it’s his. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6069 "2018-07-31T12:38:06Z")
Well, with hands like his it’s gonna _look_ real big. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6070 "2018-07-31T14:52:39Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I am tired, so pardon me if I’m missing something here, but **can we just stop with the idea that Mueller is investigating collusion?** The word appears nowhere in his letter from Rosenstein, and any arguments which imply that Mueller is investigating “collusion” are just factually wrong. > > [DocumentCloud](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3726408-Rosenstein-letter-appointing-Mueller-special.html) I Absolutely Agree. This word game bullshit about “collusion” is just that - bullshit. The correct word, is CONSPIRACY. And CONSPIRACY is a punishable crime. A felony. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6071 "2018-07-31T14:53:43Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > This is silly nitpicking. > > One of the things Mueller is investigating is, “coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump.” This is synonymous with collusion. > > Mueller is investigating collusion, among other things. There is lots and lots of publicly available evidence of collusion. Mueller has all that publicly available evidence and more. > > Of course he is investigating collusion. No, it’s CONSPIRACY. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6072 "2018-07-31T15:08:06Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > No, it’s CONSPIRACY. Pointless nitpicking. One of the many things Mueller is investigating is, “coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump.” This is equivalent to the ordinary everyday definition of collusion. He’s not building a case to charge someone with the crime of collusion, but who gives a shit. He is investigating collusion and will charge anyone with any crimes revealed by that investigation including conspiracy. There was definitely collusion between the Trump campaign and agents of thew Russian government. Mueller is investigating, among other things, whether that collusion rises to the level of criminal conspiracy. I don’t see the point of arguing that that is technically investigating conspiracy and not collusion. It’s clearly both. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6073 "2018-07-31T15:18:39Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > No, it’s CONSPIRACY. It’s right there! CONS-PIRACY. We know CONS means AGAINST. So, Trump was woking with Russia AGAINST the bad PIRATES! Mueller and the 132.38 aNgry DEMOCRATS are halping PIRATES with their NONSENSE allagaTions! SAD! ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6074 "2018-07-31T16:15:04Z")
I think we can all agree that jury selection for crooked Manafort’s trail begins today. Let’s celebrate. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6075 "2018-07-31T16:21:03Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > I think we can all agree that jury selection for crooked Manafort’s trail begins today. Let’s celebrate. I raised my hand when I read that, but I don’t think the bailiff saw me volunteer… ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6076 "2018-07-31T21:51:53Z")
An [article](https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/07/31/what-trump-knew-and-when-he-knew-it/) today claims what appears to be a smoking gun on obstruction has been in Mueller’s possession for some time. > [@Murray Waas](#): > > I have learned that a confidential White House memorandum, which is in the special counsel’s possession, explicitly states that when Trump pressured Comey he had just been told by two of his top aides—his then chief of staff Reince Priebus and his White House counsel Don McGahn—that Flynn was under criminal investigation. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6077 "2018-07-31T23:37:02Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > Hmm. You make a good point. Maybe a half Windsor. Probably not the lazy knot people like me make, though (one loop around, pull the long end through, call it good enough). How do Marines tie theirs when they wear a dress uniform? That’s probably how Mueller wears his. I looked at some pictures, and I’m gonna say Mueller goes for the four-in-hand knot. That kind of surprises me. I always think of the four-in-hand as the “easy way”. [http://www.bostonherald.com/sites/default/files/styles/gallery/public/media/2017/03/08/05172017robertmueller1.jpg?itok=R2sVLbf8](http://www.bostonherald.com/sites/default/files/styles/gallery/public/media/2017/03/08/05172017robertmueller1.jpg?itok=R2sVLbf8) [http://www.bostonherald.com/sites/default/files/styles/gallery/public/media/2017/03/08/05172017robertmueller1.jpg?itok=R2sVLbf8](http://www.bostonherald.com/sites/default/files/styles/gallery/public/media/2017/03/08/05172017robertmueller1.jpg?itok=R2sVLbf8) It has the telltale sideways bend to it. ---
**Author:** ![FavreCo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a698b9/32.png) [@FavreCo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FavreCo)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6078 "2018-07-31T23:48:41Z")
21 months, 6000+ replies, 122 pages and a big fat zero on finding any dirt on Trump. That’s some serious losing. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6079 "2018-08-01T00:00:03Z")
> [@FavreCo](#): > > 21 months, 6000+ replies, 122 pages and a big fat zero on finding any dirt on Trump. That’s some serious losing. This might be astounding to someone of your esteemed intellect, but Mueller is not done yet and he does not leak what he has to date. However, dozens of indictments and a handful of guilty pleas already- how does that stack up against the dozens of investigations of Hillary? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6080 "2018-08-01T00:02:32Z")
On the day that Trump’s campaign manager begins his trial. Fuck, Trump supporters are just about as dumb as they fucking come. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6081 "2018-08-01T00:05:27Z")
> [@FavreCo](#): > > 21 months, 6000+ replies, 122 pages and a big fat zero on finding any dirt on Trump. That’s some serious losing. Where do you get 21 months from? Mueller was put on the case in May of 2017. This thread started in October of 2017. It post count is irrelevant to the ongoing investigation. The Watergate investigation took a while as well and a lot of the groundwork was already done. Also, back then the GOP member of congress had some integrity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=303) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=305)