# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 315
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6282 "2018-08-11T00:42:48Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I have to wonder, what the fuck Ellis is up to. Something smells. Presumably someone is looking to see if Ellis has a large mortgage that suddenly gets paid off. Or if a relative of his is suddenly offered a lucrative job. Or similar shenanigans. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6283 "2018-08-11T00:54:07Z")
Is there an opening on the Big Court of Deciding Important Law Shit? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6284 "2018-08-11T02:19:22Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Either way, if Mueller is going to move, he’ll do it before the first of September. Otherwise he’ll wait until after the mid-terms to avoid the inevitable criticism that he was pulling a Comey… I’m obviously not a lawyer, but I’ve heard people make these predictions and they didn’t happen. I kept hearing some lawyers claim that all the inditments would be released in spring, and that didn’t happen. There were some, but not a lot. What makes people sure that the investigation will result in a big movement in September? how do we know that the investigation won’t go on for 5+ years? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6285 "2018-08-11T03:50:07Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I’m obviously not a lawyer, but I’ve heard people make these predictions and they didn’t happen. I kept hearing some lawyers claim that all the inditments would be released in spring, and that didn’t happen. There were some, but not a lot. > > What makes people sure that the investigation will result in a big movement in September? how do we know that the investigation won’t go on for 5+ years? IANAL either, and everything I post in these threads is purely speculative. I spent my career in courtrooms, was a certified paralegal and my job with the courts was legal procedure, so I do have a little leg up on that aspect of the process. Plus stuff rubs off. None of us has an inside track on what Mueller is really up to. It’s just slightly educated spitballing based on what little we know. Hey, it’s the Pit, right? 🙂 Who knows if any of my predictions will happen? I’ve been wrong more often than I’ve been right. But the reason I said Mueller won’t proceed with any prosecution of Trump ties to the Russian subversion of our election from Labor Day until after the mid-term election is because of a DOJ rule (written by Eric Holder, if anyone cares) that says DOJ officials will not take any action that may impact the outcome of a US election, a la James Comey. So on that point, I’m comfortable with my prediction. I agree with you that aspects of Mueller’s investigation will go on for perhaps as long as 5 years – maybe even longer! The breadth and depth of this investigation is vast, and we know only the merest shadow of its outlines. That said, I do believe that when he decides to commence his frontal attack, Mueller will bring the artillery. Here’s why: If Mueller does anything less, Trump will take the opportunity to normalize things like pardons. If Mueller submits his report and recommendations to Congress and simultaneously arrests, say, Kushner, Ivanka, Don Jr., Hope Hicks, Corey Lewendowski, Steve Bannon, Brad Pascale, Roger Stone, KellyAnne Conway, Dana Rohrbacher, Devin Nunes and who the fuck knows who else at virtually the same moment (this is only an off-the-top-of-my-head list), do you think Trump can get away with pardoning all these people and fight the report and recommendation for impeachment as well? He can’t. Public outcry will overwhelm his efforts. There’s no reason to preserve the element of surprise as Mueller has if you’re not going to use it to your best advantage. Mueller is known to value this tactic. I hope to see him make the most of it. I don’t know if this move will come in or before September. In fact, I kind of expect it may come shortly after the mid-term election. I think Republicans intend to do a lot of damage in the so-called lame duck session. It would be the perfect time for Mueller to disrupt their corrupt machinations to disband the Mueller investigation before a new Congress takes the reins in January. I could of course be full of shit. But wouldn’t it be fun? ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6286 "2018-08-11T04:59:35Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > But the reason I said Mueller won’t proceed with any prosecution of Trump ties to the Russian subversion of our election from Labor Day until after the mid-term election is because of a DOJ rule (written by Eric Holder, if anyone cares) that says DOJ officials will not take any action that may impact the outcome of a US election, a la James Comey. So on that point, I’m comfortable with my prediction. I don’t believe that’s correct, not least because Holder had stepped down before Comey started grandstanding. According to this CNN report on the subject, there’s a policy in the DOJ that prosecutorial actions can’t be timed for political impact, but they specifically rejected codifying it, saying that prosecutors should proceed in their own time according to the needs of the case. > [@CNN article](#): > > **But is the 60-day custom a firm rule?** > > No. In fact, as the Justice Department’s internal watchdog recently noted in a report about the 2016 election: “The 60-Day Rule is not written or described in any Department policy or regulation. Nevertheless, high-ranking Department and FBI officials acknowledged the existence of a general practice that informs Department decisions.” > > Ray Hulser, former section chief of the department’s Public Integrity Section who now serves as a deputy assistant attorney general in the Criminal Division, told the Department of Justice Inspector General’s Office that while working on one of the Election Year Sensitivities memos, “they considered codifying the substance of the 60-Day Rule, but that they rejected that approach as unworkable.” > > "Hulser told OIG that a prosecutor should look to the needs of the case and significant investigative steps should be taken ‘when the case is ready, not earlier or later,’ " according to the inspector general’s report. “He said that there is not any such specific rule, and there never has been, but that there is a general admonition that politics should play no role in investigative decisions.” So there’s no firm rule. Additionally, even if there were a firm rule - it wouldn’t say that the investigation had to be all finished within 60 days of an election. Rather, it would say that the prosecution shouldn’t make any public moves within that window unless necessitated by the case. As long Mueller continues to keep mum (his core competency, apparently), there’s no need for the investigation to end. And if Mueller needed to make a public move because of some emerging scenario, say, hypothetically - having Don Jr held as a material witness because he was trying to flee the country - Mueller would still be ok as long as he could demonstrate that it was necessary and not a political event. ---
**Author:** ![nachtmusick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac91a4/32.png) [@nachtmusick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nachtmusick)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6287 "2018-08-11T06:39:26Z")
It is all about the election. If the Dems flip the House then Trump is gone based on what we already know. If they don’t, then Trump’s current 89 percent approval rating among the GOP electorate means that there is little that Mueller can make stick. Putin wins. At that point we will realize that the wall was always meant to keep us in, not everybody else out. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6288 "2018-08-11T07:38:20Z")
> [@nachtmusick](#): > > It is all about the election. If the Dems flip the House then Trump is gone based on what we already know. Gone how? An impeachment trial still requires 2/3 of the Senate for conviction. I’m not convinced it’s gonna happen even with hard evidence that specifically incriminates Trump. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6289 "2018-08-11T11:35:26Z")
> [@nachtmusick](#): > > It is all about the election. If the Dems flip the House then Trump is gone based on what we already know. If they don’t, then Trump’s current 89 percent approval rating among the GOP electorate means that there is little that Mueller can make stick. Putin wins. > > At that point we will realize that the wall was always meant to keep us in, not everybody else out. Friedo already said it, but the best we can hope for is a Democratic House that slows the Trump train down a little. Even if Dems do retake the House (and even the Senate), I’d be cautious: history shows that minority-party presidents often use splits to their advantage. Obama and Clinton both won re-election despite their party getting humiliated in mid-term elections. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6290 "2018-08-11T12:09:12Z")
> [@nachtmusick](#): > > It is all about the election. If the Dems flip the House then Trump is gone based on what we already know. If they don’t, then Trump’s current 89 percent approval rating among the GOP electorate means that there is little that Mueller can make stick. Putin wins. > > At that point we will realize that the wall was always meant to keep us in, not everybody else out. And we all become comfortably numb. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6291 "2018-08-11T13:22:39Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > And we all become comfortably numb. Well played. But it’s the truth. My opinion has been that we can’t let the likes of DJT become the new normal. We can’t accept a moron for president. We must not become numb to this. Yes impeaching him will also put us in peril with Pence in charge, but when you have a snake attacking you, you kill the snake. THEN you can worry about the next snake. Impeaching him will also rile up his base to near revolutionary incitement. But frankly, fuck 'em. Let the light of day either educate them or force them back under the rocks from which they crawled. Oh, they will cause trouble, even havoc when their idol is made to step into the mud of his own making. But that shouldn’t be a worry. These people can’t stop shooting themselves in the foot long enough to realize that their new god is throwing lightning bolts at THEM. Sometimes a harsh lesson is the only way people will learn. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Duality](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.duality/32/4098_2.png) [@Mr.Duality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Duality)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6292 "2018-08-11T13:30:15Z")
If the timing of impeachment is such that Pence would have less than a year in office, and Dems control the House of representatives, I don’t think Pence could do much harm. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6293 "2018-08-11T13:43:10Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Of course. And especially when it became apparent that Benghazi/email “investigations” were being **ginned up solely for the purpose of smearing Hillary Clinton politically** , as evidenced by [Kevin McCarthy’s comments](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/09/30/rep_kevin_mccarthy_benghazi_committee_responsible_for_damaging_hillary_clintons_poll_numbers.html) about how badly they’d damaged her through their use. Hillary’s response was to endure 11 hours of _public_ interview before the House Select Committee on Benghazi. The investigation, which lasted for more than 2 years into exactly one tragic event, yielded no indictments. > > Contrast this with Mueller’s investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election and subsequent potential illegal activity by Trump, or rather Trump and the many, many likely unlawful events and circumstances in which TrumpCo had a grubby paw: \*\*In less than 2 years, it has resulted in in indictments or guilty pleas of 32 people and 3 Russian companies. Of these, 4 are former Trump advisors high up in his campaign and/or his administration. \*\* > > Do you see Mueller out posturing, preening, publicly excoriating Trump and his corrupt cronies? No. No, you don’t. Because as was pointed out upthread by **Desert Dog** , Mueller is running a professional, ethical, by-the-books investigation. He doesn’t have leaks because he has earned the respect, admiration and loyalty of his underlings. He lets his pleadings speak on his behalf. Show me one single instance where Mueller has shown himself to be a bad actor. > > And where is Trump? Whining and tweeting, calling for an end to the “witch hunt” while simultaneously refusing to sit for even a limited scope _private_ interview with Mueller. > > **I see no similarity between these 2 situations whatsoever**. The difference is obvious, and it has to do with guilt and innocence. Meuller may have a stick up his ass, and be a “too much by the book” guy, but this whole situation shows just how necessary his sort of temperament really is. He is totally professional and is not giving The Orange Ratfuck any ammo to use against him. And I hope he sends the orange bastard to prison forever, and wipes out the whole family financially to the point they have to beg for pennies outside the supermarket and live on the street. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6294 "2018-08-11T13:48:05Z")
Mueller can’t send anyone to prison. He’ll show his report to McConnell, McConnell will smile his turtley smile, and the report will be in the shredder before he can say “We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children.” ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6295 "2018-08-11T13:50:30Z")
I do fear that we’ve turned Mueller into Superman. I’m sure he’s very good at what he does, and by all accounts is a solid human being. But, he is just a human being. Have we considered that he could fail? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6296 "2018-08-11T13:51:27Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > I don’t believe that’s correct, not least because Holder had stepped down before Comey started grandstanding. … About that … despite the wild claims about Comey The Great Shining White Knight and all that bullshit… Has anyone really really looked at his financial shit? Just curious. The things he did, and the timing would cause me to take a good hard look at him, if I was investigating. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6297 "2018-08-11T13:53:38Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Well played. But it’s the truth. > > My opinion has been that we can’t let the likes of DJT become the new normal. We can’t accept a moron for president. We must not become numb to this. > > Yes impeaching him will also put us in peril with Pence in charge, but **when you have a snake attacking you, you kill the snake. THEN you can worry about the next snake**. > > Impeaching him will also rile up his base to near revolutionary incitement. But frankly, **fuck 'em**. Let the light of day either educate them or force them **back under the rocks** from which they crawled. > > Oh, they will cause trouble, even havoc when their idol is made to step into the mud of his own making. But that shouldn’t be a worry. These people can’t stop shooting themselves in the foot long enough to realize that their new god is throwing lightning bolts at THEM. > > Sometimes a harsh lesson is the only way people will learn. Absolutely. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6298 "2018-08-11T13:56:10Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > Mueller can’t send anyone to prison. He’ll show his report to McConnell, McConnell will smile his turtley smile, and the report will be in the shredder before he can say “We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children.” However, Meuller is sharing information with investigators and attorney generals at the STATE level, where traitor McConnell has no influence, and traitor Trump has no pardon authority. So in an indirect way, he can send people to prison… by assisting and informing state and city prosecutors. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6299 "2018-08-11T13:58:21Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > However, Meuller is sharing information with investigators and attorney generals at the STATE level, where traitor McConnell has no influence, and traitor Trump has no pardon authority. So in an indirect way, he can send people to prison… by assisting and informing state and city prosecutors. Do you know which ones? I know Mueller has been working with the NY attorney general. Also Mueller gave info to the NY federal attorney who searched Cohens offices. Are there others? I’ve heard that Mueller is working with the Virginia AG, but I’m not sure if thats true or not. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6300 "2018-08-11T14:01:55Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > Mueller can’t send anyone to prison. He’ll show his report to McConnell, McConnell will smile his turtley smile, and the report will be in the shredder before he can say “We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children.” And this is my concern as well. We KNOW that Mitch won’t do the proper thing and have rat fuck impeached. BUT. Once the report is given to McConnell, it will be public information will it not? Not that his base will care, but all that dirty laundry will be out for all to see. His base doesn’t care about his lack of morals or ethics, his dirty dealings, his con jobs and crimes. If they see that he isn’t the big daddy 'O billionaire that he claims, and owes his gold plumbing to Russia, perhaps they will go ‘hmmm’. I suppose justice will have to be dealt out by the states that trump is being investigated in. I suspect that Mueller is sharing his information. NY, is already on trumps heals, and has wanted a piece of him for quite a while. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6301 "2018-08-11T14:01:56Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Do you know which ones? I know Mueller has been working with the NY attorney general. Also Mueller gave info to the NY federal attorney who searched Cohens offices. > > Are there others? I’ve heard that Mueller is working with the Virginia AG, but I’m not sure if thats true or not. I would have to find out. Right now, “all eyes” are on NY. I simply don’t believe someone as thorough and methodical as Meuller would only put his eggs in the NY basket. I’m sure he is very aware that the Repugs would love to “roundfile” his reports and charges. At this point though, I have to say this whole disgusting mess is far bigger and far more obvious than Nixon ever was. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=314) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=316)