# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 318
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6342 "2018-08-12T00:15:40Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > It is an avenue that is ripe for fraud and abuse. There’s been little record of fraud and abuse, and it means that people who are not near their polling place for valid reasons, such as being sent on a work trip or being away on vacation or scheduled for a hospital stay, can still vote. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6343 "2018-08-12T01:20:20Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > It is an avenue that is ripe for fraud and abuse. It’s also an avenue that allowed people like my mother to vote for the last few years of her life. She was home bound. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6344 "2018-08-12T01:32:33Z")
Yeah, I honestly don’t get the bit about absentee voting. I voted as an absentee voter at least 2X - I never suspected corruption of any sort. It’s possible my vote might not have been counted but that’s possible in any form of voting. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6345 "2018-08-12T04:46:14Z")
[This is kind of Mueller-adjacent, but it’s all part of the same insane bullshit, so I’m posting it:](https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/11/politics/charlottesville-russia-meddling-republican-lawmaker/index.html) > [@CNN](#): > > Republican Rep. Tom Garrett said Saturday that he was told during a briefing with the FBI director that Russian meddling played in a role in “fomenting the flames of what happened in Charlottesville,” Virginia, one year ago, when a white nationalist rally turned violent and resulted in the death of a counterprotester. > > “I sat in a closed session briefing probably two months ago about Charlottesville with the director of the FBI, amongst others, and asked if Russian inter-meddling had to do with fomenting the flames of what happened in Charlottesville. I was told yes, it did,” Garrett told CNN’s Ryan Nobles on “Newsroom.” The congressman from Virginia said he asked during the briefing if the information was classified and was told it is not. > > Garrett, a member of the House Homeland Security and Foreign Affairs committees, said that Russian interference is “seeking to pit Americans against Americans to undermine confidence in Western-style democracies.” I’d prefer to hear it from the FBI itself rather than from one step removed, but even if it’s false, it’s interesting that a Republican is making statements like these. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6346 "2018-08-12T06:51:30Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > We’re going to have a conservative party, one way or the other, because conservatism is a characteristic less than a political persuasion. For me, conservative means to accept the necessity of change but concerned with prudent and cautious implementation. Don’t throw out the baby with the bongwater! > > If we are to have a sane and responsible Republican Party, this one has to be clobbered. Burned up, fall over, sink into the swamp, then rise from the stinky ashes anew, as a minority party of the Loyal Opposition. If our national car needs a motor, it also needs brakes. And, of course, if the sovereign city council of Berzerkley demands ten billion dollars for vegan gay whales, we need someone to blame if it gets voted down. > > How much political power would a chastened and reformed Republican Party end up with? Dunno, but eager to find out. > > “…In their eyes, there’s something lacking, what they need’s a damned good whacking!..” > > - St. John of Liverpool Sorry, **’luc** , while your point about the necessity of conservatism to maintaining a healthy political landscape is well taken, we can’t have a sane and responsible Republican Party. The Republican Party has forsaken sanity and responsibility, and more to the point, _conservatism_, for reactionary (you should pardon the expression) _radicalism_. The Republican Party must be forever annihilated, their apparatuses burned to the ground, and their assets liquidated and turned over to me for equitable distribution to any actual sane and responsible political parties that remain. At the moment, it appears that the current Democratic Party MIGHT be able to successfully schism into liberal and conservative parties, but the obliteration of the GOP needs to be accomplished before a realistic evaluation can be attempted. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6347 "2018-08-12T06:55:10Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Have to agree with both of you. And no, I can’t every imagine voting for a republican again (not sure if I ever have). > > But this must go from the bottom up. EVERY republican in any race for any position. That makes me a bit sad. I’m sure there are some good ones in local elections, but I have no idea how else to send the message that this party is dead. They only care about themselves. The republicans in DC have made this very, very clear. > > It’s an old saying… “When someone shows you who they are, believe them”. Did you just effectively say _“and some of them, I’m sure, are nice people”_? :eek: _Awkward_… ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6348 "2018-08-12T12:49:06Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Yeah, I honestly don’t get the bit about absentee voting… I never suspected corruption of any sort. 😕 Did you ever watch _All in the Family_ with Archie Bunker? Can you imagine Archie _not_ ordering absentee ballots so he could look over her shoulder as Edith compliantly voted for Trump? Heck, I think Archie would even offer to kick Meathead out of the house if Meathead refused to show Archie his filled-in ballot. If you don’t think abusive husbands represent a significant portion of Trump’s base, then you’re out of touch with reality. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6349 "2018-08-12T12:55:09Z")
Question: Was it illegal for Manafort to offer some turd the Secretary of the Army job in return for money? I realize it would be illegal for Trump to offer the job, but Manafort was just a private-citizen turd-grunt. I hereby offer to tout any Doper who sends me $5000 for the job of Ambassador to Liechtenstein! There! Have I just broken a law? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6350 "2018-08-12T13:16:54Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > 😕 Did you ever watch _All in the Family_ with Archie Bunker? Can you imagine Archie _not_ ordering absentee ballots so he could look over her shoulder as Edith compliantly voted for Trump? Heck, I think Archie would even offer to kick Meathead out of the house if Meathead refused to show Archie his filled-in ballot. > > If you don’t think abusive husbands represent a significant portion of Trump’s base, then you’re out of touch with reality. Yeah, that could be a problem for sure. With that said, I love to being able to vote by mail. But then my wife’s and my politics line up. I would probably divorce a trump supporter. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6351 "2018-08-12T13:18:05Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > How would someone know in advance who planned to vote absentee? How would persons exercising this right be targeted? > > I often hear that vote-by-mail is subject to intimidation by a spouse, etc., and I suppose some of this may go on. Mostly not, though, and it would have to happen on a grand scale in order to be effective, don’t you think? > ? That’s where I think most voter fraud theories fall apart. The reason most people don’t try to vote twice isn’t the strictness of the controls or the ID rules. It’s teally more “why bother?, why waste the time?” Because when you’re talking about several million votes, the difference between one and two is really insignificant. It would take a highly organized fraud campaign for any individual case of voter fraud by double voting to make a difference, and that’s not happening outside of the fevered dreams of the right wing. > [@septimus](#): > > 😕 Did you ever watch _All in the Family_ with Archie Bunker? Can you imagine Archie _not_ ordering absentee ballots so he could look over her shoulder as Edith compliantly voted for Trump? Heck, I think Archie would even offer to kick Meathead out of the house if Meathead refused to show Archie his filled-in ballot. > > If you don’t think abusive husbands represent a significant portion of Trump’s base, then you’re out of touch with reality. Actually, I can’t imagine Archie or any Trump era abusive husband being that organized in their thinking. More likely they would just harangue their spouse about their vote until they were sufficiently intimidated into obeying. Or maybe they would insist on going into the voting booth with their spouse to “help” them. Which is NOT illegal. > **[sec208-English.pdf](https://www.advancingjustice-aajc.org/sites/default/files/2016-09/sec208-English.pdf)** > > 914.09 KB The only people you CAN’T take in the voting booth with you are your employer or union rep. Like it or not, it seems to be perfectly legal for an abusive husband to “force” his wife to vote for Trump. It would not surprise me if this became a cornerstone of the 2020 campaign. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6352 "2018-08-12T15:14:25Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Sorry, **’luc** , while your point about the necessity of conservatism to maintaining a healthy political landscape is well taken, we can’t have a sane and responsible Republican Party. The Republican Party has forsaken sanity and responsibility, and more to the point, _conservatism_, for reactionary (you should pardon the expression) _radicalism_. > > The Republican Party must be forever annihilated, their apparatuses burned to the ground, and their assets liquidated and turned over to me for equitable distribution to any actual sane and responsible political parties that remain. > > At the moment, it appears that the current Democratic Party MIGHT be able to successfully schism into liberal and conservative parties, but the obliteration of the GOP needs to be accomplished before a realistic evaluation can be attempted. There will be a Republican Party because its a brand name. There is a shitload of money tied to that brand name. There’s the mailing lists and donor lists that belong, as _property_! to the entity that can legally claim to be the Republican Party. So if the corporadoes and the knuckle-walkers fight to the death over control…it will still exist. And its not so much that conservatism must be accepted as legitimate for reasons of political health, but simply because conservative as a personality type existed before any of this shit ever happened. There were conservative Hittites and Sumerians. Ancient Hebrews argued whether God’s Will was best reflected in care for the poor and sick, or smiting the shit out of the Amorites. And further, keep in mind…if there were no Republican Party then the amoral and ambitious will gravitate to the Dems, because that will be where the opportunity is. Frankensteins made up of equal parts Bill Clinton and Donald Trump. When it comes to who to trust with power, I prefer the moonbat to the grasping greed-freak every day, twice on Sunday. ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6353 "2018-08-12T16:47:51Z")
One of the few instances of voter fraud in the 2016 election occurred when a man filled in his ex-wife’s ballot, signed her name and mailed it in. He was convicted of voter fraud. He was also the former Chair of the Colorado Republican Party. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6354 "2018-08-12T16:57:20Z")
> [@Anny\_Middon](#): > > One of the few instances of voter fraud in the 2016 election occurred when a man filled in his ex-wife’s ballot, signed her name and mailed it in. > > He was convicted of voter fraud. He was also the former Chair of the Colorado Republican Party. womp womp ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6355 "2018-08-12T17:00:35Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Some might recall my thread where I debated what to do for the mid-terms. I changed my registration from Libertarian to Independent but, for the primary, I can select a Republican, Democrat, or Green ballot if I like. I chose the Rs to see if I could help pull them back from the brink. Here are the three candidates for US Senate: > [Martha McSally](https://mcsallyforsenate.com/) > [Kelli Ward](https://kelliward.com/about) > [Joe Arpaio](https://www.sheriffjoeforamerica.com/) > > All three of them have been sucking on Trump’s teat. Which shall I reward and which shall I kick in the ass? I am not sure there are any Republicans left worth saving. What brink, and why pull them back? They made this poison, now let them drink it. I’d vote for whoever is the WORST, and try to sabotage them at this point. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6356 "2018-08-12T17:02:01Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Mueller holds former Roger Stone aide Andrew Miller in contempt for refusing to testify before the grand jury. > [Judge holds Roger Stone associate Andrew Miller in contempt for refusing to testify in Mueller investigation – Chicago Tribune](http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-roger-stone-andrew-miller-contempt-mueller-20180810-story.html) Good! ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6357 "2018-08-12T17:06:22Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Sorry, **’luc** , while your point about the necessity of conservatism to maintaining a healthy political landscape is well taken, we can’t have a sane and responsible Republican Party. The Republican Party has forsaken sanity and responsibility, and more to the point, _conservatism_, for reactionary (you should pardon the expression) _radicalism_. > > The Republican Party must be forever annihilated, their apparatuses burned to the ground, and their assets liquidated and turned over to me for equitable distribution to any actual sane and responsible political parties that remain. > > At the moment, it appears that the current Democratic Party MIGHT be able to successfully schism into liberal and conservative parties, but the obliteration of the GOP needs to be accomplished before a realistic evaluation can be attempted. This. They need to go extinct, like the Know Nothings and the Whigs. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6358 "2018-08-12T17:13:48Z")
“GOP delenda est!” ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6359 "2018-08-12T18:14:35Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > What brink, and why pull them back? They made this poison, now let them drink it. I’d vote for whoever is the WORST, and try to sabotage them at this point. No. Trusting that the general public is, on average, reasonable and far-sighted enough to realize that they’re facing a bunch of crazies who need to stay out of positions of authority is not safe. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6360 "2018-08-12T18:28:49Z")
> [@Anny\_Middon](#): > > One of the few instances of voter fraud in the 2016 election occurred when a man filled in his ex-wife’s ballot, signed her name and mailed it in. > > He was convicted of voter fraud. He was also the former Chair of the Colorado Republican Party. It’s even worse than that. This criminal was [a right-wing radio rant host who](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/03/22/ex-colo-gop-leader-said-only-democrats-committed-voter-fraud-now-hes-charged-with-voter-fraud/) … > [@](#): > > devoted an entire episode of his morning talk show to the heated topic of voter fraud. > > “It seems to me,” Curtis said in the 42-minute segment, “that virtually every case of voter fraud I can remember in my lifetime was committed by Democrats.” Calling **Brickidiot** : Does this prove your point? Would voter ID have stopped this felony? . ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6361 "2018-08-12T19:33:06Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > How would someone know in advance who planned to vote absentee? How would persons exercising this right be targeted? > > I often hear that vote-by-mail is subject to intimidation by a spouse, etc., and I suppose some of this may go on. Mostly not, though, and it would have to happen on a grand scale in order to be effective, don’t you think? > > Isn’t someone who is vulnerable to being bullied and/or intimidated likely to be that way whether voting in secret or otherwise? I’d imagine the vast majority are in-home abuses. My aunt took a shot at voting for her hard of hearing, wheelchair-bound husband. Unfortunately, she was bed-bound at the time and I told her it had been thrown out. Which was true very soon after. The only way to vote for multiple people would be to work in a rest home. Are absentee ballots forward-able? > [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > . . . Actually, I can’t imagine Archie or any Trump era abusive husband being that organized in their thinking. More likely they would just harangue their spouse about their vote until they were sufficiently intimidated into obeying. Or maybe they would insist on going into the voting booth with their spouse to “help” them. > > Which is NOT illegal. > > [https://www.advancingjustice-aajc.org/sites/default/files/2016-09/sec208-English.pdf](https://www.advancingjustice-aajc.org/sites/default/files/2016-09/sec208-English.pdf). . . . Dang. I wonder how likely that would be to be checked up on. It would certainly stick out. Does the helper have to sign anything? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=317) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=319)