# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 326
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6503 "2018-08-19T14:46:37Z")
> [@slumtrimpet](#): > > Interesting perspective. I’m convinced (I’m easy that way) > One question though; if McGahn’s and Trump’s usefulness to the GOP is their court stacking willingness/ability, then why is Pence not just as useful. What makes Trump, who seems to be somewhat of a liability, unique or what makes Pence undesirable? Trump wants an oligarchy disguised as/abetted by/supportive of (as long as profit is king) theocracy. Pence, on the other hand, _really_ wants theocracy abetted by the oligarchs. But most of the would-be oligarchs are tepid (or even reluctant) theocrats at best and don’t want to unleash a monster that could turn on them. For them religion is a tool, not a belief. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6504 "2018-08-19T14:47:10Z")
> [@slumtrimpet](#): > > what makes Pence undesirable? Betraying the base before elections is unwise. Strategically, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![slumtrimpet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@slumtrimpet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slumtrimpet)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6505 "2018-08-19T14:59:55Z")
Thanks **Zakalwe**. That does make sense. **Great Antibob** , True right now, but the fuckery has been going on since day one. They could have dumped trump a year ago. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6506 "2018-08-19T15:29:55Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > … I think Manafort’s guilty as sin, and I’m guessing that most of the jurors see it that was as well. But **it takes just one lone juror** to royally fuck things up. > > I remember I used to know a civil trial lawyer and I expressed my skepticism over juries, believing that they could easily be suckered and wrongly convict people. While he acknowledged the gullibility of jurors, he said no matter what, he always wanted a jury. If he could just convince one that there was any doubt… There is someting else to worry about threats and bribery and partisanship… Only one juror has to be a Deplorable. Or, you only have to threaten or bribe ONE juror to get a hung jury. Bribery and threats are in both Trump’s and Putin’s toolboxes. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6507 "2018-08-19T15:30:55Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > And really - after O.J. Simpson, George Zimmerman and Casey Anthony, should we really be surprised that any jury can get it totally, completely fucking wrong? Very true. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6508 "2018-08-19T15:36:11Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > You don’t report that bit. > > The liberal media will and the lefties will read it. **The right will boost the tea reading statements and bury the news of the guilty verdict and your average news consumer in the right will only remember something about the case against Manafort looking pretty slim**. I see it playing out that way too, and the “base”, the Deplorables, will howl and wail. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6509 "2018-08-19T15:40:34Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > The amusing thing is, you put these exact same people on a jury of a black man accused of a crime only on the word of a police officer, and they will gleefully vote guilty, guilty, guilty. … and then exonerate a cop of all guilt for a bad shooting - despite witness, audio, video, documented history of instability and unsuitability, even testimony of other cops saying he’s guilty (rare I know), etc. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6510 "2018-08-19T15:46:03Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Wanted to add to this. > > Re the security clearances, **he’s clearly sending a message to the currently serving civil service employees who staff these various agencies**. He underestimated the strength of the cultures in the civilian & military federal workforce and the fact that they really actually do care about things like integrity, informing the public, promoting public interest, and exposing corruption, and this is almost to a man/woman on a bipartisan basis. He has found out that just replacing the head of the EPA, NOAA, the Park Service, the BLS, the Department of State, Department of Defense, Department of Justice doesn’t change one bit the determination of **people who were hired with the understanding that they do their job, regardless of party affiliation**. Sure there are exceptions, but the culture generally frowns upon partisan hackery. **Trump is trying to intimidate the hundreds of thousands of employees** whose motto is ‘next man/woman up.’ Goddamn right he’s desperate. He now knows what he’s up against. > > That being said, given enough time, he can seriously injure these institutions. They’re already being seriously injured. You’ve got good career people at the senior levels who are leaving in droves. And the hiring in these departments has, in some cases, slowed. Given enough time, he can certainly impact the culture, even if he can’t change it so easily. He can make people fear for their careers and their jobs. Worst of all, he can make working for the federal workforce, and the government that serves the taxpayer, an unappealing place for talented people, which could mean that **over time these jobs are filled by people who are less competent or even less desirable** , just so certain offices can keep functioning. That’s one thing that’s at stake here, though it’s obviously deeper than that. 1. - sending a message to the currently serving civil service employees – Yes he is. He is trying to threaten the entire government. That is not an exaggeration either. 2. - Look at the specific people so far… the clearances were pulled from people who would/should have a lot of knowledge and info about the whole “Russia thing”. 3. - That asshole WOULD pull them just because they didn’t kiss his ass enough anyway. 4. - He wants to destroy government institutions. Just look at the cronies he puts at the head of them - The very people who want to destroy them for personal gain. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6511 "2018-08-19T15:49:26Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Out of a cannon? > > But a worse way than that would be to tie McGahn to a wheelchair and make him stay up all night watching footage of Trump at his rallies, then as dawn approaches, wheel McGahn up to the Presidential bedroom so he could watch Trump rage-tweet while on the can, then make McGahn watch Trump take his morning shower. _Then_ fire him. > > That would be the worst way. I’d rather take the cannon. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6512 "2018-08-19T16:40:49Z")
I am reminded of one of the Guinness brothers, famed for their epic adventure in fact-keeping, the _Guinness Book of World Records_. In reference to a story about a local circus facing the retirement of its star attraction, the guy who gets shot out of the cannon, he remarked that the circus was seeking to replace him with a man of similar calibre. This is, of course, an unspeakably bad pun, but it must be noted that men such as these are incapable of shame. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6513 "2018-08-19T16:48:30Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I am reminded of one of the Guinness brothers, famed for their epic adventure in fact-keeping, the _Guinness Book of World Records_. In reference to a story about a local circus **facing the retirement of its star attraction, the guy who gets shot out of the cannon** , he remarked that the circus was seeking to replace him with a man of similar calibre. > > This is, of course, an unspeakably bad pun, but it must be noted that men such as these are incapable of shame. The stress was getting to him. He was a shell of his former self. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6514 "2018-08-19T17:22:52Z")
Before there was Cecil, there were fact geeks. Kind of people who haunt bookstores and cannot resist buying _1000 Utterly Obscure Facts_ and cannot resist buying _1000 More Utterly Obscure Facts_. Even as we know, to our shame and sorrow,that half the facts in the second book are already included in the first. Yes, I bought them both, on the same day, at the same time. If you are truly an Orthodox Cecilian, so did you. These days, they are known as “Dwights”, the sad, the pathetic fact geek. The Guinness brothers were to Cecil as John the Baptist was to Jesus of Nazareth, the precursor, the explorer who sets the stage for the True Savior of Fact Geeks. As such, the brother’s are entitled to a certain degree of deference, even in the face of such deplorable behavior. _You_, however… ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6515 "2018-08-19T20:35:18Z")
Rudy Giuliani: “Truth isn’t truth”. [Rudy Giuliani Stuns NBC's Chuck Todd: 'Truth Isn't Truth' | HuffPost Latest News](https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/rudy-giuliani-truth-isnt-truth_us_5b79754be4b018b93e94c9f8)? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6516 "2018-08-19T21:12:41Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Rudy Giuliani: “Truth isn’t truth”. > [Rudy Giuliani Stuns NBC's Chuck Todd: 'Truth Isn't Truth' | HuffPost Latest News](https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/rudy-giuliani-truth-isnt-truth_us_5b79754be4b018b93e94c9f8)? Just to set up for when trump is eventually subpoena, and they ask him to swear to tell the truth. Which truth, indeed. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6517 "2018-08-19T22:00:36Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Just to set up for when trump is eventually subpoena, and they ask him to swear to tell the truth. > > Which truth, indeed. The one that isn’t the truth? I mean, that’s the usual ‘go-to’ for this outfit anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6518 "2018-08-19T22:48:15Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > You have a sick and twisted imagination. I just lost my appetite for supper, thankyouverymuch. > [@Aspenglow](#): > > And by take his morning shower, I assume you mean _make_ his morning shower… which, if he is true to form, would be a golden one all over McGahn. _Then_ fire him. > Probably going to be a little awkward at Monday morning meetings going forward. > [@SteveG1](#): > > I’d rather take the cannon. Note that no one is calling these possible ways of firing McGahn _implausible_. > [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Rudy Giuliani: “Truth isn’t truth”. > [Rudy Giuliani Stuns NBC's Chuck Todd: 'Truth Isn't Truth' | HuffPost Latest News](https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/rudy-giuliani-truth-isnt-truth_us_5b79754be4b018b93e94c9f8)? Rudy says this shit partly for the fun of it (he loves being at the top of the news as much as does Donald), but partly also because it crowds out reporting on the Manafort trial. Numberless stories about the odd behavior of the judge in the trial and the very real possibilities of jury tampering (both clandestine and in plain sight by the fucking President of the United States), have been displaced by stories about Rudy’s latest _bon mot_. The trial is looking less and less like a fair trial. But most Americans won’t know that, because the distraction program is going so very well. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6519 "2018-08-19T23:15:50Z")
None of these people have _bons mots_. It’s _mals mots_ all the way down… ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6520 "2018-08-19T23:17:52Z")
But I’m sure Trump’s finances are squeaky clean: Cohen, Trump’s Ex-Lawyer, Investigated for Bank Fraud in Excess of $20 Million > **[Michael Cohen, Trump’s Ex-Lawyer, Investigated for Bank Fraud Over $20...](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/19/nyregion/michael-cohen-loans-donald-trump.html)** > > The inquiry, which could deal a significant blow to President Trump, is entering the final stages. Charges against Mr. Cohen could come in August. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6521 "2018-08-19T23:32:38Z")
Someone said recently that Guiliani is looking more and more like The Penguin every day. Now whenever I see him talking on TV, it’s all I can see. Rudy Cobblepot. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6522 "2018-08-19T23:44:37Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Someone said recently that Guiliani is looking more and more like The Penguin every day. Now whenever I see him talking on TV, it’s all I can see. > > Rudy Cobblepot. Nah, the penguin is far better dressed and well spoken. This is a serious insult to the penguin. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=325) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=327)