# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 327
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6523 "2018-08-20T01:07:57Z")
Don’t see this NYT article mentioned: [Trump Lawyers’ Sudden Realization: They Don’t Know What Don McGahn Told Mueller’s Team](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/19/us/politics/don-mcgahn-trump-mueller.html) Key paragraph: Mr. Trump’s lawyers realized on Saturday that they had not been provided a full accounting after The New York Times published an article describing Mr. McGahn’s extensive cooperation with Mr. Mueller’s office. After Mr. McGahn was initially interviewed by the special counsel’s office in November, Mr. Trump’s lawyers never asked for a complete description of what Mr. McGahn had said, according to a person close to the president. They have a lot of people claiming it was bad strategy to cooperate with the investigation. But I say that’s only true because they have something to hide. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6524 "2018-08-20T01:27:30Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Don’t see this NYT article mentioned: > [Trump Lawyers’ Sudden Realization: They Don’t Know What Don McGahn Told Mueller’s Team](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/19/us/politics/don-mcgahn-trump-mueller.html) > > Key paragraph: > Mr. Trump’s lawyers realized on Saturday that they had not been provided a full accounting after The New York Times published an article describing Mr. McGahn’s extensive cooperation with Mr. Mueller’s office. After Mr. McGahn was initially interviewed by the special counsel’s office in November, **Mr. Trump’s lawyers never asked for a complete description of what Mr. McGahn had said,** according to a person close to the president. > > They have a lot of people claiming it was bad strategy to cooperate with the investigation. But I say that’s only true because they have something to hide. Must’ve skipped that class in law school where they taught it was important to know shit before shooting off your mouth in protest. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6525 "2018-08-20T01:37:55Z")
> **[Michael Cohen, Trump’s Ex-Lawyer, Investigated for Bank Fraud Over $20...](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/19/nyregion/michael-cohen-loans-donald-trump.html)** > > The inquiry, which could deal a significant blow to President Trump, is entering the final stages. Charges against Mr. Cohen could come in August. > [@](#): > > Federal authorities investigating whether President Trump’s former personal lawyer and fixer, Michael D. Cohen, committed bank and tax fraud have zeroed in on well over $20 million in loans obtained by taxi businesses that he and his family own, according to people familiar with the matter. > > Investigators are also examining whether Mr. Cohen violated campaign finance or other laws by helping to arrange financial deals to secure the silence of women who said they had affairs with Mr. Trump. The inquiry has entered the final stage and prosecutors are considering filing charges by the end of August, two of the people said. Look for the “I had no involvement in this!” tweet by DumbleDrumpf any day now… ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6526 "2018-08-20T01:39:57Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > [https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/19/nyregion/michael-cohen-loans-donald-trump.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/19/nyregion/michael-cohen-loans-donald-trump.html) > > Look for the “I had no involvement in this!” tweet by DumbleDrumpf any day now… “Do I know that guy? Oh, yeah. He used to hang around Trump Tower, looking for a job. Claimed he was a barista or something.” ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6527 "2018-08-20T02:25:06Z")
Federal prosecutors are about to fry one of Trump’s fixers in Michael Cohen. I get the sense that we’re about to see another name more frequently: Allen Weissberg. I’m taking a wild gander that the feds want to know where Trump’s money goes, and besides his moronic children, they want to speak to people who might actually know the money trail. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6528 "2018-08-20T13:25:17Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Nah, the penguin is far better dressed and well spoken. Especially when Rudy’s wearing drag again. Most especially when [he’s trying to seduce Trump.](https://www.insideedition.com/video-rudy-giuliani-dressed-drag-and-being-seduced-donald-trump-resurfaces-43119) (Warning: Cannot be unseen.) ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6529 "2018-08-20T16:45:02Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Rudy Giuliani: “Truth isn’t truth”. > [Rudy Giuliani Stuns NBC's Chuck Todd: 'Truth Isn't Truth' | HuffPost Latest News](https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/rudy-giuliani-truth-isnt-truth_us_5b79754be4b018b93e94c9f8)? So is this the answer to the great 2000 year-old question, as quoted in the famous biography of Pilate: > [@Pontius Pilate](#): > > ‘And why did you stir up the people in the bazaar, you vagrant, talking about the truth, of which you have no notion? _ **What is truth?** _’ > And here the procurator thought: ‘Oh, my gods! I’m asking him about something unnecessary at a trial… my reason no longer serves me…’ And again he pictured a cup of dark liquid. ‘Poison, bring me poison…’ > And again he heard the voice: … ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6530 "2018-08-20T21:37:01Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > The stress was getting to him. He was a shell of his former self. Going out with a bang. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6531 "2018-08-20T21:39:10Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Nah, the penguin is far better dressed and well spoken. > > This is a serious insult to the penguin. Penguin was smart, and had at least a touch of class. Penguin also knew what he was doing and was pretty good at it. Rudy G? Nope. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6532 "2018-08-20T22:13:13Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Going out with a bang. I heard he went off on his boss. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6533 "2018-08-21T17:09:47Z")
Manafort jury appears close as [they ask what to do](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/21/us/politics/paul-manafort-trial.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news) "If we cannot come to a consensus on a single count, how should we fill out the jury verdict sheet for that count, and what does that mean for the final verdict?” Most are interpreting that as they have come to a consensus on 17 of 18 counts and are having problems with one. I guess it could also be interpreted as saying that they are unable to come to a consensus on any counts though? Also, there [might be a Cohen plea deal](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/ex-trump-lawyer-michael-cohen-discussing-plea-deal-prosecutors-n902571) by the end of the day. Not a good day for Trump, though his last good day was the one before election day. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6534 "2018-08-21T17:40:49Z")
ABC News just interrupted programming to report that Cohen has agreed to a deal. I bet Orange Donnie is quaking in his Pampers. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6535 "2018-08-21T17:46:38Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > ABC News just interrupted programming to report that Cohen has agreed to a deal. I bet Orange Donnie is quaking in his Pampers. That’s great. I hope. But if it all comes down to the President can’t be indicted, what the hell do we do? Does not look like congress will impeach, and I doubt we pick up enough seats in the senate to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6536 "2018-08-21T18:10:14Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > ABC News just interrupted programming to report that Cohen has agreed to a deal. I bet Orange Donnie is quaking in his Pampers. CNN is saying that the plea deal would **not** involve Cohen testifying against anybody, though. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6537 "2018-08-21T18:23:35Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Manafort jury appears close as [they ask what to do](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/21/us/politics/paul-manafort-trial.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news) "If we cannot come to a consensus on a single count, how should we fill out the jury verdict sheet for that count, and what does that mean for the final verdict?” > > Most are interpreting that as they have come to a consensus on 17 of 18 counts and are having problems with one. **I guess it could also be interpreted as saying that they are unable to come to a consensus on any counts though?** > > Also, there [might be a Cohen plea deal](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/ex-trump-lawyer-michael-cohen-discussing-plea-deal-prosecutors-n902571) by the end of the day. Not a good day for Trump, though his last good day was the one before election day. Standard disclaimer: IANAL. With that in mind: No. The jury’s note was pretty explicit, in my view. They made a point of mentioning “a single count.” I think the far more common interpretation is the one you first expressed. They’re hung on one count only and have reached verdicts as to all other counts. Given the state of the documentary evidence alone, the most likely scenario is guilty on all counts and possibly hung on one. My further educated guess is that it’s one lone person who’s holding out on that sole count. However, I’ve seen some crazy stuff happen because judges assumed they knew how a jury had decided on the settled counts. Best for a judge to be patient and let the jury work through their issues on all counts if at all possible. With this judge? Might be too much to expect. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6538 "2018-08-21T18:27:32Z")
Manafort jury note: “If we cannot come to a consensus on a **single count** , how should we fill in the verdict form for\*\* that count\*\*? And what does that mean for the final verdict?" One count is what the note is about, not all of them. Or the foreman is bad at English. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6539 "2018-08-21T18:33:10Z")
One other thing worth mentioning re the “single count” issue: The note garnered a 5-minute conference between the jury, the judge and the parties, undoubtedly to clarify exactly what the note meant. Based on the brevity of the conference, we can assume it’s only one count, and the judge gave them the standard instruction to keep on keepin’ on. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6540 "2018-08-21T18:37:01Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > …quaking in his Pampers. First read that as “_quacking_ in his Pampers”. Snort, chuckle, _guffaw_. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6541 "2018-08-21T18:40:47Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > First read that as “_quacking_ in his Pampers”. Snort, chuckle, _guffaw_. Thanks! His drawers are going to look like a duck shit in them. I think 1000x more for the Cohen plea than the Manafort verdict. I subscribe to the guilty on all counts but one holdout on one count theory. As satisfying as all guilty verdicts will be, I don’t see the impact on Donald. These are Manafort’s crimes, unrelated to the Russia affair. Sure, Manafort may start singing in order to reduce his sentence, but I think it more likely he gets pardoned. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6542 "2018-08-21T18:51:11Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > His drawers are going to look like a duck shit in them. I think 1000x more for the Cohen plea than the Manafort verdict. > > I subscribe to the guilty on all counts but one holdout on one count theory. As satisfying as all guilty verdicts will be, I don’t see the impact on Donald. These are Manafort’s crimes, unrelated to the Russia affair. Sure, Manafort may start singing in order to reduce his sentence, **but I think it more likely he gets pardoned.** I’m not worried about that. There will be enough charges against Manafort held in abeyance at the state level that are, uhh, unpardonable. Manafort is toast even with a pardon. I don’t view the Manafort situation as separate from the Mueller situation, not at all. Mueller hung onto that case for a reason. I think Manafort is extremely tied up in the Russia conspiracy aspect of Mueller’s probe. What Manafort is being tried for in this trial and the next are the “kompromat.” Manafort’s need for money and to make himself “whole” with Oleg Deripaska are Manafort’s motivations for cooperating with the Russians in giving them access to Trump and the Trump campaign. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=326) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=328)