# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 328
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6543 "2018-08-21T19:03:04Z")
Can we have some speculation as to how the Cohen plea deal might play out specifically WRT the downfall of thump and his administration. I keep hoping some shit will hit some fan _somewhere_. I"m having a hard time keeping up. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6544 "2018-08-21T19:31:26Z")
I’m always game to speculate. 😃 This has been a seriously bad week for Trump, which makes me very happy. Not only did we learn that Mueller has complete cooperation from McGahn, but Manafort’s verdicts appear to be going Mueller’s way and now he’s got Cohen, too. WRT the Cohen plea deal: What Cohen pleads to today isn’t really going to reveal much about how Cohen will help Mueller. At a minimum, I expect Cohen will confirm to Mueller that Trump was well aware of the Trump Tower meeting, what it was about and what was expected by the Russians from Trump in return for their help. That’s a very important link in Mueller’s case. If he has multiple witnesses who will attest to this fact (McGahn, Gates, Cohen), his conspiracy charges are extremely compelling. Cohen is probably also going to confirm that he was in fact in Prague meeting with Russians when the Steele dossier asserts he was, on or around August 2016. The purpose of that meeting was stated to be to figure out how to “clean up the mess left behind by western media revelations of TRUMP ex-campaign manager MANAFORT’s corrupt relationship with the former pro-Russian YANUKOVICH regime in Ukraine and TRUMP foreign policy advisor Carter PAGE’s secret meetings in Moscow with senior regime figures in July 2016.” (Steele dossier, page 18). When in doubt about anything going on in this investigation, look to the Steele dossier. It wasn’t the catalyst for the investigation, but Mr. Steele performed some A-1 spycraft there. As an added bonus, Cohen will apparently plead to one count of criminal campaign finance violation. This is directly tied to the Trump campaign, likely related to the Stormy Daniels matter. Just something for public shits and giggles. We can all guess what Trump’s response will be: “NO COLLUSION!!! NO COLLUSION!!!” ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6545 "2018-08-21T19:32:50Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Can we have some speculation as to how the Cohen plea deal might play out specifically WRT the downfall of thump and his administration. I keep hoping some shit will hit some fan _somewhere_. I"m having a hard time keeping up. Yeah, I’m concerned that they will find the gun they bullets and the body(s), but still won’t impeach. And we will have to look at the whole “can we indict a sitting president thing.” ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6546 "2018-08-21T19:45:28Z")
There are times when I’m not enjoying this clusterfuck at all. Today is a good day. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6547 "2018-08-21T19:48:57Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Can we have some speculation as to how the Cohen plea deal might play out specifically WRT the downfall of thump and his administration. I keep hoping some shit will hit some fan _somewhere_. I"m having a hard time keeping up. From what I’ve been reading, the plea deal doesn’t really change anything in a case against Trump. The fact that Cohen isn’t testifying against anybody as part of the deal means that his testimony wouldn’t offer value to prosecuting other cases. That doesn’t necessarily mean that Cohen doesn’t know anything; it may just mean that they seized enough documents and other hard evidence from him that his testimony would be redundant. Putting a shady lawyer on the stand could actually hurt the case in the eyes of the jury, especially if the defence does a good job in cross-examination. It’s like how in the Manafort trial, the defence tried to discredit Gates by pointing out he’s a duplicitous asshole. Mueller’s team may believe they have all that they need without him, so they didn’t offer a deal (one piece of evidence in favour of this is how openly Cohen was seeking a deal involving testimony. He certainly was hoping that he knew enough to get a break on these charges). ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6548 "2018-08-21T19:53:07Z")
Here’s a little more speculation to cheer you up, **ThelmaLou** : Cohen’s bank accounts were likely the ones used to transmit funds on Trump’s behalf for, oh, all kinds of illegal activities. Think what might be learned about transfer of funds to pay off Russian hackers. \ Oh, my. \ ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6549 "2018-08-21T20:18:09Z")
One more thing: Cohen not only has the lowdown on Trump, but he’s got a lot of information on the kids’ dealings, too. That seems like a powerful chip in this poker game. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6550 "2018-08-21T20:37:45Z")
Manafort guilty on five counts of tax evasion. One count of failing to file a foreign account report. Two counts on bank fraud. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6551 "2018-08-21T20:37:55Z")
According to reporters on Twitter, Manafort has been found guilty of at lest five tax charges. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6552 "2018-08-21T20:38:55Z")
Guilty on 8 counts, mistrial on 10. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6553 "2018-08-21T20:40:45Z")
Which 8 counts? Are they the more serious among the charges? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6554 "2018-08-21T20:41:05Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > Guilty on 8 counts, mistrial on 10. [Here.](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/21/paul-manafort-verdict.html) ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6555 "2018-08-21T20:41:36Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Can we have some speculation as to how the Cohen plea deal might play out specifically WRT the downfall of thump and his administration. I keep hoping some shit will hit some fan _somewhere_. I"m having a hard time keeping up. On the other hand (just a little drizzle on your parade) the fact that Mueller may still be in the stage of seeking corroborating witnesses, would seem to indicate that we won’t be seeing a final wrap-up report in the next week or two. Sigh. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6556 "2018-08-21T20:42:04Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Which 8 counts? Are they the more serious among the charges? > [@](#): > > President Donald Trump’s former campaign chairman Paul Manafort on Tuesday was found guilty of eight criminal counts, including five counts of tax fraud. > > Manafort was also found guilty of two counts of bank fraud and one count of failing to file foreign bank account reports. … ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6557 "2018-08-21T20:43:22Z")
Manafort is still facing money laundering and illegal lobbying charges next month. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6558 "2018-08-21T20:45:28Z")
Well, hoist on my own petard, never second-guess a jury. I wonder if Mueller’s team will retry the 10 counts. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6559 "2018-08-21T20:48:30Z")
It will be interesting to see how Trump tries to spin 8 convictions / 0 acquittals into a win…but I’m sure he’ll try. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6560 "2018-08-21T20:54:00Z")
CNN reporting that Cohen is testifying that Trump was involved in federal election crimes. No link yet, on TV. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6561 "2018-08-21T20:56:55Z")
Fox news had these 4 opinion pieces under the lead of “Jury announces guilty verdict on some charges in Manafort trial; mistrial declared on other counts” Gaetz: The Ohrs were the ‘Bonnie and Clyde of collusion’, Manafort case unimportant VON SPAKOVSKY: Manafort trial is complicated but Americans need to know this KRUMHOLZ: Manafort case is about Manafort – not Trump or the Trump campaign Tucker on Paul Manafort trial: Lead prosecutor Weissmann ‘avenging Hillary’s defeat’ ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6562 "2018-08-21T20:58:00Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > It will be interesting to see how Trump tries to spin 8 convictions / 0 acquittals into a win…but I’m sure he’ll try. He’s gonna call the 10 hung/jury mistrials “innocent”. “Mostly innocent” or some such bullshit. His base won’t bother with the facts. They never do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=327) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=329)