# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 329
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6563 "2018-08-21T20:58:18Z")
Meanwhile, Cohen is pleading guilty. > [@Bloomberg](#): > > In acknowledging the charges against him, Cohen said he was directed to violate campaign law at the direction of a candidate for federal office. At the same candidate’s direction, he said he paid $130,000 to somebody to keep them quiet, which was later repaid by the candidate. He didn’t identify the candidate or the person who was paid, but those facts match Cohen’s payment to Clifford and Trump’s repayment. [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-21/michael-cohen-appears-in-court-over-hush-payments-plea-update?utm\_content=politics&cmpid%3D=socialflow-twitter-politics&utm\_medium=social&utm\_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm\_source=twitter](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-21/michael-cohen-appears-in-court-over-hush-payments-plea-update?utm_content=politics&cmpid%3D=socialflow-twitter-politics&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter) ---
**Author:** ![Celidin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Celidin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celidin)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6564 "2018-08-21T20:58:44Z")
Here’s the original breakdown of charges: > [@](#): > > • Five counts of subscribing to a false income tax return. Each count carries a maximum of three years in federal prison. That’s a total of 15 years. > > • Four counts of failing to report foreign bank accounts. Each count carries a maximum of five years in federal prison. That’s a total of 20 years. > > • Five counts of conspiracy to commit bank fraud. Each count carries a maximum of 30 years in federal prison. That’s 150 years behind federal bars. > > • Four counts of bank fraud. Each count also carries a maximum of 30 years in federal prison. That’s a total of 120 years. (from [Paul Manafort trial by the numbers: 18 charges, potential 305 years in prison](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/08/20/paul-manafort-trial-numbers/1043564002/)) So it looks like 2 counts of bank fraud (max 60 years) + 1 failure to report foreign account (5 years) + 5 false income tax returns (15 yrs) … 80 years is a long time. Interesting mix of them too, you would think if there was a die-hard Trumpster holding out on things, they wouldn’t have that scattershot approach across the different types. (ETA: Those were max possible sentences, as noted in the USA Today article if that wasn’t clear) ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6565 "2018-08-21T20:59:22Z")
As of right now, an ally of the president, under oath, is testifying that the president committed election fraud. Can the GOP really ignore this too? ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6566 "2018-08-21T21:01:43Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > As of right now, an ally of the president, under oath, is testifying that the president committed election fraud. Can the GOP really ignore this too? Of course they can and of course they will. The Republicans have forsaken not only all honor but any pretense of honor. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6567 "2018-08-21T21:01:54Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > As of right now, an ally of the president, under oath, is testifying that the president committed election fraud. Can the GOP really ignore this too? Yep. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6568 "2018-08-21T21:02:15Z")
I doubt it will be anywhere near 80. Likely that they’ll run concurrently with the bank fraud keeping Manafort in jail the longest, and he’ll still probably get paroled before that’s done. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6569 "2018-08-21T21:06:15Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > Meanwhile, Cohen is pleading guilty. “Originally Posted by **Bloomberg** In acknowledging the charges against him, Cohen said he was directed to violate campaign law at the direction of a candidate for federal office. At the same candidate’s direction, he said he paid $130,000 to somebody to keep them quiet, which was later repaid by the candidate. He didn’t identify the candidate or the person who was paid,…” Hmm. Man, that’s a toughie! That sounds like it could be LOTS of people! Ha ha ha! I don’t believe I’ve said it today: Fuck You, Trump! ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6570 "2018-08-21T21:08:08Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > As of right now, an ally of the president, under oath, is testifying that the president committed election fraud. Can the GOP really ignore this too? Depends on what the impact is on public opinion of Trump. If it doesn’t move the needle, expect continued messages of, “nobody here but us chickens!” ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6571 "2018-08-21T21:08:54Z")
I think I saw that Cohen is probably looking at at least 48 months in jail. Or until he gets pardoned, whichever comes first. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6572 "2018-08-21T21:10:44Z")
Damn. Well, I can’t say I’m disappointed about Manafort being convicted, on the other hand, [nobody won](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBlhrTpi69E) my bet with **DragonAsh**. Just two more counts and I woulda got a hunnert bucks for charity! I’m gonna send $50 to the [Brooklyn Public Library Literacy Program](https://apps.brooklynpubliclibrary.org/donate/) as a consolation prize. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6573 "2018-08-21T21:13:14Z")
> [@Celidin](#): > > Interesting mix of them too, you would think if there was a die-hard Trumpster holding out on things, they wouldn’t have that scattershot approach across the different types. Agreed. I do note that they hung on the conspiracy charges. We’ll have to wait for the state charges to get him on that. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6574 "2018-08-21T21:27:00Z")
Trump has to get up on a stage for a rally in two hours. Dude is having the worst day ever, but I hope he has even worse days ahead. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6575 "2018-08-21T21:31:58Z")
They’ll pump him so full of Adderall he’ll rattle when he walks. Tonight’s Presidential Reality Show is also competing with Omarosa’s big “Please keep me in your hearts” move, going on Chris Matthews show with a purported Trump video to throw into the pot. Fuck sakes, this is all so ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6576 "2018-08-21T21:34:46Z")
Let’s not overlook this little gem: > [@](#): > > …Mr. Cohen made the extraordinary admission that he paid a pornographic film actress “at the direction of the candidate,” referring to Mr. Trump, to secure her silence about an affair she said she had with Mr. Trump… > > [New York Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/21/us/politics/paul-manafort-trial-verdict.html?partner=rss&emc=rss) I feel kind of happy this afternoon. Thanks for the comments on the Cohen deal. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6577 "2018-08-21T21:37:25Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Damn. Well, I can’t say I’m disappointed about Manafort being convicted, on the other hand, [nobody won](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBlhrTpi69E) my bet with **DragonAsh**. Just two more counts and I woulda got a hunnert bucks for charity! > > I’m gonna send $50 to the [Brooklyn Public Library Literacy Program](https://apps.brooklynpubliclibrary.org/donate/) as a consolation prize. I’m also happy to have been wrong about acquittal, and happy to not have won because of a mistrial being declared in the 10 charges vs him being acquitted. Perhaps we can put the wager on ice to see if the mistrial charges are re-tried. I’m donating $100 to the [Jimmy V Foundation for Cancer Research](https://secure3.convio.net/jimmyv/site/Donation2;jsessionid=00000000.app30101b?df_id=5755&mfc_pref=T&5755.donation=form1&s_src=website&s_subsrc=donatebutton&_ga=2.239227907.1211392371.1534887295-1525597735.1534887295&NONCE_TOKEN=22157CAE3B1FF724D06C972B01F9172E) as my consolation prize. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6578 "2018-08-21T21:37:54Z")
> [@Celidin](#): > > Interesting mix of them too, you would think if there was a die-hard Trumpster holding out on things, they wouldn’t have that scattershot approach across the different types. If anything it suggest the presence of die-hard anti-Trumpers, who wouldn’t budge from “Guilty on all counts” even if other jurors felt some of the charges weren’t proven beyond a reasonable doubt. (Of course it also could have been 12 entirely non-partisan jurors who just disagreed.) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6579 "2018-08-21T21:40:22Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Let’s not overlook this little gem: I feel kind of happy this afternoon. Thanks for the comments on the Cohen deal. [Michael Cohen Pleads Guilty After Giuliani Offers to Be His Lawyer](https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/michael-cohen-pleads-guilty-after-giuliani-offers-to-be-his-lawyer) -The Borowitz Report :D:D:D ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6580 "2018-08-21T21:41:31Z")
Uh oh. IIUC Manafort was convicted on five of the most serious charges and I owe **andros** a new sginature. :eek: . ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6581 "2018-08-21T21:42:45Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > If anything it suggest the presence of die-hard anti-Trumpers, who wouldn’t budge from “Guilty on all counts” even if other jurors felt some of the charges weren’t proven beyond a reasonable doubt. (Of course it also could have been 12 entirely non-partisan jurors who just disagreed.) They reached an agreement on eight charges. The agreement was guilty on all of those eight charges. And yet you think the ‘hold out’ was someone insisting he was ‘guilty’ one other charges as well? That seems…odd. If anything, I would think a die-hard Trumper was the hold out, unwilling to agree to a guilty charge except in the most obvious, irrefutable cases. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6582 "2018-08-21T21:45:13Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > Manafort is still facing money laundering and illegal lobbying charges next month. Don’t forget witness tampering. 😃 > [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > They’ll pump him so full of Adderall he’ll rattle when he walks. Tonight’s Presidential Reality Show is also competing with Omarosa’s big “Please keep me in your hearts” move, going on Chris Matthews show with a purported Trump video to throw into the pot. I am looking forward to this. I wonder if Trump has nightmares about the walls closing in on him? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=328) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=330)