# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/641 "2017-11-08T13:22:06Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > “Well you see, because I — in that I mean — now look. When I say I talked — and now I want to be very careful here — when I say “talked” here, what I really want to be clear is — “talked” means — now before I define what it is I mean about defining “talked” is that I want to be sure this committee understands that I get that they want to understand context — and by context, I mean in which the words I use today will be understood in a way that makes me not appear — okay, now, what I really want to say is that I maybe I talked with a Russian — but it was very brief and — now what I mean about “brief” is under 30 minutes — but this committee might misconstrue the time as being more that what it might appear in that —” > > _IC collectively shoots their brains out_ Too bad there isn’t a House Dullard Committee for him to testify to. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/642 "2017-11-08T13:33:12Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I think we’re getting to the “every man [sic] for himself” stage. With all the people being thrown under it, we’re gonna need a bigger bus. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/643 "2017-11-08T20:25:10Z")
F-P thinks there was nothing damning in Pages testimony? F-P, I know you don’t enjoy reading outside sources as you’ve proved a multitude of times, but here’s [a good rundown of what Seth Abramson considers to be 28 bombshells found within that testimony](https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/927999713714081799). I don’t expect you to read or accept this , but putting this here for others that might: > [@](#): > > BOMBSHELL: The White House lied repeatedly about how active Trump’s secretive NatSec Advisory Committee was—it met MANY times, not “once.” > > BOMBSHELL: Kremlin agents lured Page to Russia to meet Kremlin officials and Rosneft execs AFTER he joined the campaign; it wasn’t his idea. > > BOMBSHELL: MANY Trump campaign aides AND NatSec team members knew Page was going to Russia post-hacking revelations—none tried to stop him. > > BOMBSHELL: Page bypassed top policy aides and NatSec peers in telling HOPE HICKS he was going to Russia—suggesting he wanted TRUMP to know. > > BOMBSHELL: Given Page and JD Gordon’s words, Hicks LIED to the media in saying the campaign had no Russia contacts; she’s a key witness now. > > BOMBSHELL: Page spoke to the FBI 5-6 times in 2016-7; if he told them what he told Congress, he can be charged with Making False Statements. > > BOMBSHELL: Page deliberately withheld deeply inculpatory documents from Congress using a false and legally fraudulent Fifth Amendment claim. > > BOMBSHELL: Page met the same Kremlin official and Rosneft exec in BOTH July and December 2016 and lied about BOTH interactions to Congress. > > BOMBSHELL: On July 7, 2016, the Kremlin asked Page to carry a message to Trump: we strongly support you and want to work with you on policy. > > BOMBSHELL: Page admits discussing sanctions policy with both the Kremlin and Rosneft in July; after, he briefed the campaign on these talks. > > BOMBSHELL: As Page briefed the NatSec team and the campaign on his secret Russia meetings, every Trump aide who denied Russia contacts lied. > > BOMBSHELL: Page was certain to keep Trump’s daily assistant, Hope Hicks, in the loop—Sessions, too—so Trump and Sessions knew what Page did. > > BOMBSHELL: As of mid-July, Trump’s campaign was _on notice_ Russia supported it, wanted to help it, and was offering “outreach”—cooperation. > > BOMBSHELL: When Trump said “Russia, if you’re listening…” and asked it to release Clinton emails, he was _responding_ to Russian outreach. > > BOMBSHELL: Page _directly_ revealed his Moscow plans to Sessions at an event Sessions set up—didn’t disclose—and sat beside Papadopoulos at. > > BOMBSHELL: Page admits “the whole [NatSec] group” got Papadopoulos’ March 2016 email on the Kremlin wanting to meet—that’d include Sessions. > > BOMBSHELL: Page proposed the campaign tell him what to say in Moscow—thus, _to Kremlin agents_—and/or have Trump take the trip in his place. > > BOMBSHELL: Everything the Steele Dossier said about Page appears to be either exactly accurate or so close to it as to be indistinguishable. > > BOMBSHELL: During his July '16 trip Page discussed the upcoming sale of Rosneft with Rosneft’s Investor Relations chief—a key dossier claim. > > BOMBSHELL: AFTER we knew of Russia hacking—but BEFORE Trump changed the GOP platform to benefit Putin—Page told Clovis Russia favored Trump. > > BOMBSHELL: The NatSec team talked lifting sanctions on Russia—maybe unilaterally—from its earliest days, _right after_ the Mayflower Speech. > > BOMBSHELL: The NatSec team knew Page was headed to Moscow as a “private citizen” concurrent to discussing sending a “private citizen” there. > > BOMBSHELL: Multiple NatSec team members (at least 3) went to Budapest, the European HQ for Russian intelligence; Page met “a Russian” there. > > BOMBSHELL: At least 7 of the NatSec team’s 14 members were on an email about the GOP platform change—and at least TEN campaign members knew. > > BOMBSHELL: None of the NINE campaign members who _knew_ Manafort was lying about Trump’s role in the GOP platform change revealed the truth. > > BOMBSHELL: AT LEAST ten members of the campaign and the NatSec team knew they were helping Putin at a time the Kremlin was supporting Trump. > > BOMBSHELL: Page met Kremlin/Rosneft officials in Moscow in December '16—including contact with the MANAGER of Putin’s election interference. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/644 "2017-11-08T20:52:47Z")
But her emails! Her _emails_! ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/645 "2017-11-08T20:56:10Z")
> [@GrandWino](#): > > F-P thinks there was nothing damning in Pages testimony? > > F-P, I know you don’t enjoy reading outside sources as you’ve proved a multitude of times, but here’s [a good rundown of what Seth Abramson considers to be 28 bombshells found within that testimony](https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/927999713714081799). I don’t expect you to read or accept this , but putting this here for others that might: I’m not going to bother reading SA, but I skimmed these points here. I’ve read enough of the CP transcript to know that most of these “bombshells” are nonsense. Probably the rest too, but there’s only so much time and interest I have for this type of thing. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/646 "2017-11-08T22:28:31Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > …but there’s only so much time and interest I have for this type of thing. We noticed. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/647 "2017-11-08T22:32:42Z")
Yup. All the time in the world to argue for Carter Page’s explanation of how the 5th works, none to read any possible rebuttals. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/648 "2017-11-08T22:35:58Z")
Hey, you discuss what interests you, I discuss what interests me. Apparently what interests you is discussing far-out partisan crap with others of your ilk who likewise lap up uncritically anything which feeds your fantasies. But everyone has different tastes. Gotta appreciate that. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/649 "2017-11-08T22:37:04Z")
[This is a fun lede:](https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-strange-pleasure-of-seeing-carter-page-set-himself-on-fire) > [@](#): > > **The Strange Pleasure of Seeing Carter Page Set Himself on Fire** > > Watching Carter Page immolate himself and incriminate a half dozen of his colleagues from the Trump-Putin 2016 campaign has been a strange, almost guilty pleasure. Profoundly disconnected, socially awkward, and reeking of late-stage virginity, he gives off the creepy Uncanny Valley vibe of a rogue, possibly murderous android or of a man with a too-extensive knowledge of human taxidermy and a soundproofed van. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/650 "2017-11-08T22:40:27Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Hey, you discuss what interests you, I discuss what interests me. > > Apparently what interests you is discussing far-out partisan crap with others of your ilk who likewise lap up uncritically anything which feeds your fantasies. But everyone has different tastes. Gotta appreciate that. 😃 Knowing what you said, you still said it. Well, like the banner says… it’s taking longer than we thought. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/651 "2017-11-08T22:43:52Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Hey, you discuss what interests you, I discuss what interests me. > > Apparently what interests you is discussing far-out partisan crap with others of your ilk who likewise lap up uncritically anything which feeds your fantasies. But everyone has different tastes. Gotta appreciate that. “Page comes off pretty well IMHO - at least as far as I’ve read” - F-P But yes, please go on about our lapping… ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/652 "2017-11-08T22:48:48Z")
**GrandWino** , I appreciate the effort and the list. There are many material facts contained there that, if corroborated (some already are, some we suspect already are) strengthens Mueller’s investigation immeasurably. I suspect he’s already got a lot of this buttoned up, but one more clueless, inadvertent witness won’t hurt. 🙂 In other news, I think this is great and I admire this judge more every day: [Judge Issues Gag Order in Manafort/Gates Case](http://www.reuters.com/article/us-trump-russia-manafort/u-s-judge-issues-gag-order-in-manafort-case-idUSKBN1D82YC) - Reuters I notice she allows no cameras in the courtroom, either. Smart, smart judge. ---
**Author:** ![arles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/71c47a/32.png) [@arles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/arles)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/653 "2017-11-09T01:28:08Z")
Remember that admitted liar, George Papadopoulos, who has been characterized as a nobody by the Trump Administration? Well the BBC is reporting on a previously undisclosed meeting between him and the British Foreign Office for a “working level” meeting. The story was first reported by Scott Stedman, a UC Irvine ('18) Political Science Major, in the Medium. BBC story: [http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41892373](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41892373) Scott Stedman story: [https://medium.com/@ScottMStedman/exclusive-papadopoulos-had-working-level-meeting-with-u-k-foreign-office-in-september-2016-367ef543df18](https://medium.com/@ScottMStedman/exclusive-papadopoulos-had-working-level-meeting-with-u-k-foreign-office-in-september-2016-367ef543df18) ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/654 "2017-11-09T02:06:35Z")
I’ll have my nothingburger with everything on it. And a side of fries. And a chocolate malt. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/655 "2017-11-09T05:51:10Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Hey, you discuss what interests you, I discuss what interests me. > > Apparently what interests you is discussing far-out partisan crap with others of your ilk who likewise lap up uncritically anything which feeds your fantasies. But everyone has different tastes. Gotta appreciate that. How would Carter Page’s full testimony be partisan, other than partisan towards Carter Page? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/656 "2017-11-09T06:05:53Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > How would Carter Page’s full testimony be partisan, other than partisan towards Carter Page? Anything that pounds another nail in Dear Leader’s coffin is, by definition, partisan crap, according to **F-P** ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/657 "2017-11-09T08:18:01Z")
How relevant are these Congressional investigations anyway? Does anyone believe anything is going to happen to Trump & Friends because of them? The only investigation that matters is Mueller, as far as I can tell. What is Carter Page telling him? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/658 "2017-11-09T13:43:42Z")
> [@arles](#): > > Remember that admitted liar, George Papadopoulos, who has been characterized as a nobody by the Trump Administration? Well the BBC is reporting on a previously undisclosed meeting between him and the British Foreign Office for a “working level” meeting. The story was first reported by Scott Stedman, a UC Irvine ('18) Political Science Major, in the Medium. Medium isn’t a _the_, FWIW. It’s just a blogging platform. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/659 "2017-11-09T14:30:37Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > How would Carter Page’s full testimony be partisan, other than partisan towards Carter Page? I didn’t say “Carter Page’s full testimony” was partisan. I was referring to Seth Abramson’s list of “28 bombshells” found within that testimony (and in general, anything else put out by Seth Abramson). ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/660 "2017-11-09T15:30:07Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I didn’t say “Carter Page’s full testimony” was partisan. I was referring to Seth Abramson’s list of “28 bombshells” found within that testimony (and in general, anything else put out by Seth Abramson). I’m reasonably sure that the 28 statements, as gathered in the one party, take less than five minutes to read. It’s far quicker to read them and then check the document for confirmation than it is to read any reasonable chunk of the testimony. The nice thing with the partisan content is that it tells you everything that might be interesting. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=34)