# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 332
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6623 "2018-08-22T01:11:17Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > …the Manafort conviction is embarrassing to Trump, as it indicates his willingness to surround himself with crooks, sleazebags and low-lifes. Yes, but unfortunately this is what thinking people know. His supporters applaud and to trump is just another day at the office. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6624 "2018-08-22T01:14:17Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I think it’s this that disgusts me most of all. The slippery, slimy, hypocritical, non-ethical “morality” of those who have followed Trump over a cliff. One hopes they’ll make a very satisfying thump when they hit the ground. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6625 "2018-08-22T01:15:33Z")
Will these jurors be permitted to go public once they’re released (or have they already been released?)? Will they turn up on the talking pundit shows and be besieged by reporters and ghostwriters who want to write their books? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6626 "2018-08-22T01:26:48Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Will these jurors be permitted to go public once they’re released (or have they already been released?)? Will they turn up on the talking pundit shows and be besieged by reporters and ghostwriters who want to write their books? …and stalked and possibly murdered by Trump fanatics and right-wing extremists who view them as traitors… ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6627 "2018-08-22T01:32:59Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > to trump is just another day at the office. Another day on the golf course, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6628 "2018-08-22T01:37:21Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I know. I made a reference earlier in this thread to what has happened “this week,” then belatedly realized it’s only Tuesday. > > Maybe I’ll drink tonight like it’s Friday. A day worthy of celebration! My husband asked if we could take the kids out for ice cream.\* 😛 \*My parents took me and my sister out for ice cream when Nixon resigned. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6629 "2018-08-22T01:37:51Z")
In other news, a defamation lawsuit some Russians brought against Christopher Steele was dismissed today. (That’s not some verification of its veracity, but, hey, a good news day is a good news day). [https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-45251255](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-45251255) ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6630 "2018-08-22T01:46:22Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I’ve read conflicting opinions on this. First, Manafort’s testimony could potentially disclose other unknown, non-pardoned offences, including potentially state offenses, so even if accepting a pardon were admittance of guilt he couldn’t be compelled to testify–he could still claim the 5th. Second, there appears to be disagreement among top law professors whether accepting a pardon is actually admitting guilt. 1. Compelled to testify - it’s true that Manafort would still be able to claim the 5th on some other charges, for example, in the charges in the other trial, but he could be asked to testify, for example, if Donald knew about any of this stuff, like his unreported work as a foreign agent. As I understand it. I could well be wrong. 2. Pardon acceptance is an admission of guilt - The Supreme Court has ruled that this is so in Burdick v. United States (1915). Some people (Eugene Volokh for example, [here](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/08/26/is-accepting-a-pardon-an-admission-of-guilt/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.7a13eeb9c246)) have tried to argue the issue by citing some extra-curricular writings from 100 years previous to Burdick, but I don’t agree with him that this would carry much weight against the actual Supreme Court ruling. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6631 "2018-08-22T01:47:03Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Maybe I’ll drink tonight like it’s Friday. A day worthy of celebration! Along those lines, Dan Rather posted on Facebook today that he planned to sit back with two fingers of Wild Turkey and watch the news. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6632 "2018-08-22T01:48:42Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > My husband asked if we could take the kids out for ice cream.\* 😛 > > \*My parents took me and my sister out for ice cream when Nixon resigned. That’s really lovely. 🙂 Isn’t it something how relieved we all are to finally see some just – and by just, I mean in the sense of justice – movement in this horror show? > [@Moriarty](#): > > In other news, a defamation lawsuit some Russians brought against Christopher Steele was dismissed today. (That’s not some verification of its veracity, but, hey, a good news day is a good news day). > > [https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-45251255](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-45251255) Not verification of its veracity, but certainly verification that it was not a document intended to smear the Trump campaign, either. All Steele did is what he is good at: Spy on Russians, with whom Trump and his associates chose to tangle. Steele didn’t create the connections. He simply reported the illegal activity. He did what Trump campaign officials should have done, bringing it to the attention of the FBI. This country owes Steele a huge apology. Dismissal of the lawsuit is a gratifying start, and yes – adds even more good news to a good news day! ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6633 "2018-08-22T01:54:29Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Along those lines, Dan Rather posted on Facebook today that he planned to sit back with two fingers of Wild Turkey and watch the news. LOL, here’s to you, **jsc1953**! \ ---
**Author:** ![Aescwynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Aescwynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aescwynn)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6634 "2018-08-22T01:55:51Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Will these jurors be permitted to go public once they’re released (or have they already been released?)? Will they turn up on the talking pundit shows and be besieged by reporters and ghostwriters who want to write their books? The judge has already said that the names of the jurors won’t be made public because there is fear for their safety. Judge Ellis himself has received lots of threats and has been given “protection.” ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6635 "2018-08-22T02:04:43Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > LOL, here’s to you, **jsc1953**! \ Slainte! ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6636 "2018-08-22T02:07:15Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Along those lines, Dan Rather posted on Facebook today that he planned to sit back with two fingers of Wild Turkey and watch the news. If that’s true it is motherfucking cool! ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6637 "2018-08-22T02:09:21Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Do you think the miners have noticed that thump has not resurrected the mining industry yet? It’s not his fault, it’s Democrat Obstructionism™. That’s why he needs the Red Wave in November, to Wrest Control of Congress from the Forces of Evil — then … #MAGA(g)!!! ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6638 "2018-08-22T02:12:09Z")
Probably worth pointing out that Manafort is the one who picked Pence. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6639 "2018-08-22T02:12:16Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > As I’m watching the news I keep thinking it’s Friday. I hope I don’t forget to go to work tomorrow. The other lumberjacks will come and get you. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6640 "2018-08-22T02:22:52Z")
This is absolutely beautiful. So Trump has now been implicated on at least two counts of campaign finance violations re: the payoffs of Karen McDougall and Stormy Daniels, for which Cohen apparently was reimbursed through the Trump Organization to the tune of more than $400K, but wait, there’s more! Cohen’s lawyer Lanny Davis was just on the Maddow show helpfully explaining that Mr. Cohen would be most pleased to help the Special Counsel with his enquiries, since Cohen apparently has (nudge nudge wink wink) considerable information that he is sure would be of interest to Mueller, some perhaps (nudge nudge again) including advance knowledge Trump may have had of the hacking of the DNC server. Whatever else may happen in the next few months, it’s now looking highly unlikely that Trump will see out the entirety of his first term, much less a second. Time for a sip of Scotch indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6641 "2018-08-22T03:13:08Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > This is absolutely beautiful. So Trump has now been implicated on at least two counts of campaign finance violations re: the payoffs of Karen McDougall and Stormy Daniels, for which Cohen apparently was reimbursed through the Trump Organization to the tune of more than $400K, but wait, there’s more! > > Cohen’s lawyer Lanny Davis was just on the Maddow show helpfully explaining that Mr. Cohen would be most pleased to help the Special Counsel with his enquiries, since Cohen apparently has (nudge nudge wink wink) considerable information that he is sure would be of interest to Mueller, some perhaps (nudge nudge again) including advance knowledge Trump may have had of the hacking of the DNC server. > > Whatever else may happen in the next few months, it’s now looking highly unlikely that Trump will see out the entirety of his first term, much less a second. Time for a sip of Scotch indeed. If the Democrats win the House, they’re going to have the power of Committee Chairperson in a variety of committees, allowing them to issue subpoenas for information, request Trump’s personal finances, etc. Should he make it past the midterms, his life is going to start becoming a whole lot more hellish than it already is. I’d say that he’s almost better to step down now, except that he’s already pretty screwed no matter what. Staying President at least gives him immunity and some pardon power, so he might _have_ to stay in the job for as long as possible, just to stay out of jail. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6642 "2018-08-22T03:32:46Z")
> [@Aescwynn](#): > > The judge has already said that the names of the jurors won’t be made public because there is fear for their safety. Judge Ellis himself has received lots of threats and has been given “protection.” I’m guessing sooner rather than later one or more of the jurors is going to approach a publisher and turn this experience into cash, danger notwithstanding. Maybe they’ll ask for personal bodyguards from whoever buys the story as part of the deal. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=331) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=333)