# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 345
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2018, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6883 "2018-08-26T21:48:02Z")
Marcy Wheeler has another interesting [post](https://www.emptywheel.net/2018/08/26/andy-mccarthys-misconception/) today. In it, she argues against Andrew McCarthy’s conclusion that Mueller only has obstruction in his sights because his conspiracy indictments have included only Russian actors. She concludes with: > [@emptywheel](#): > > What Mueller has done with both of the counterintelligence indictments that McCarthy takes solace in is lay out the Russian side of a conspiracy (and both are charged as conspiracies) with very clear spots into which American co-conspirators may be dropped when Mueller is prepared to do so. ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2018, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6884 "2018-08-26T23:19:36Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > There is obviously a surplus of Republicans willing to debase themselves for electoral victory and/or high-profile appointments. Remember Romney presenting like a female baboon in season for the Sec of State position just to have the rug pulled out from under him? Whoever is running against him in Utah should use that dinner picture in every single ad. Yeah, it’s Utah. But the Mormons hate Trump and they should be constantly reminded how Trump played Romney for a fool. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6885 "2018-08-27T00:19:44Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > Marcy Wheeler has another interesting [post](https://www.emptywheel.net/2018/08/26/andy-mccarthys-misconception/) today. In it, she argues against Andrew McCarthy’s conclusion that Mueller only has obstruction in his sights because his conspiracy indictments have included only Russian actors. > > She concludes with: Not only have they only included Russian actors, but Mueller’s mandate had nothing to do with investigating Russians. He’s allowed to follow up on crimes that become evident as part of investigating Americans, but his objective is firmly to do just that and investigate Americans. And not just any Americans, a specified, named list of them. If that ended up as an indictment of Russians, then it means that there was a direct jump off point from _those Americans_ to _those Russians_. There’s also the matter that his team is personally prosecuting Paul Manafort. Other matters were handed off to other agencies and teams. Why prosecute Manafort for old financial misdeeds but not Cohen? The only possibilities that make sense are either that Manafort was a named target, so he wanted to keep him, even if the particulars weren’t relevant to the investigation. Or, that he wants to have direct access to Manafort when and if he flips, because he has reason to believe that Manafort is directly linked to his mandate. And so again, let’s remind ourselves of the mandate: Did these specific, named Americans commit a conspiracy with Russian agents? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6886 "2018-08-27T00:53:01Z")
> [@aurora\_maire](#): > > Whoever is running against him in Utah should use that dinner picture in every single ad. Yeah, it’s Utah. But the Mormons hate Trump and they should be constantly reminded how Trump played Romney for a fool. They may hate Trump, but that didn’t stop the state from voting Republican thus helping that clown we have in the White House today. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6887 "2018-08-27T01:10:03Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > They may hate Trump, but that didn’t stop the state from voting Republican thus helping that clown we have in the White House today. And they will forgive Mitt anything short of hookers and blow. By which I mean, Utah, so salty language and coffee. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6888 "2018-08-27T05:05:11Z")
> [@andros](#): > > And they will forgive Mitt anything short of hookers and blow. > > By which I mean, Utah, so salty language and coffee. I think you mean ankle-revealing prairie dresses and CocaCola. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6889 "2018-08-27T11:52:57Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > I think you mean ankle-revealing prairie dresses and CocaCola. Eye bleach! Eye bleach! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6890 "2018-08-27T14:37:58Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > If that ended up as an indictment of Russians, then it means that there was a direct jump off point from _those Americans_ to _those Russians_. > > There’s also the matter that his team is personally prosecuting Paul Manafort. Other matters were handed off to other agencies and teams. Why prosecute Manafort for old financial misdeeds but not Cohen? When one of the judges in the Manafort case questioned this, a partially redacted copy of the original document describing the scope of Mueller’s investigation was released. [http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/388168-mueller-team-gives-judge-unredacted-memo-on-russia-mandate](http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/388168-mueller-team-gives-judge-unredacted-memo-on-russia-mandate) “The memo also authorizes Mueller to investigate whether Manafort “committed a crime or crimes arising out of payments he received from the Ukrainian government”.” My guess is that Manafort and his Ukrainian dealing have been of interest to law enforcement for some time. This indicates to me that the preliminary investigation indicated that there was some link between the Manafort /Gates schemes and Trump/Russia. But I have long held that the Manafort crimes were serious and would’ve been of interest to investigators even if there wasn’t a Trump connection. I know that there is a general perception that the feds only went after Manafort to get to Trump. I disagree with this and I think that there were at least factions in the FBI that saw the Trump investigation as a way to get Manafort. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6891 "2018-08-27T15:03:23Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > There’s also the matter that his team is personally prosecuting Paul Manafort. Other matters were handed off to other agencies and teams. Why prosecute Manafort for old financial misdeeds but not Cohen? > > The only possibilities that make sense are either that Manafort was a named target, so he wanted to keep him, even if the particulars weren’t relevant to the investigation. Or, that he wants to have direct access to Manafort when and if he flips, because he has reason to believe that Manafort is directly linked to his mandate. The Manafort stuff is much more closely related to the original investigation - in that it at least involves contacts with Russians and such - than the Cohen stuff which is about taxi medallions and payments to strippers. ---
**Author:** ![slumtrimpet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@slumtrimpet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slumtrimpet)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6892 "2018-08-27T15:08:51Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The Manafort stuff is much more closely related to the original investigation - in that it at least involves contacts with Russians and such - than the Cohen stuff which is about taxi medallions and payments to strippers. …payments to strippers which are illegal campaign contributions. oops. The money for which may well have come from yet more illegal campaign contributions from Russian. Total nothingburger. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6893 "2018-08-27T15:32:52Z")
> [@slumtrimpet](#): > > …payments to strippers which are illegal campaign contributions. oops. The money for which may well have come from yet more illegal campaign contributions from Russian. Total nothingburger. Are you capable of looking at these matters in any other context other than whether or not it’s a “nothingburger”? The discussion here is about why Mueller chose to hand off the Cohen prosecution while he did not do so for Manafort. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6894 "2018-08-27T18:27:47Z")
Mueller has limited bandwidth. Let NY go after Cohen, and possibly file State charges now or in the future that are exempt from a Presidential pardon. Mueller still gets all the dirt, and if Cohen wants to tell all, Mueller can come back in. Also, Mueller is going after the big stuff. Catch and kill payoffs using campaign funds are illegal, but it’s not a charge so obviously bad that clearly implicates a sitting President beyond all shadow of doubt for something that rises to conspiracy and treason with Russia or laundering billions of dollars in Oligarch money. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6895 "2018-08-27T19:06:17Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > If the doorman got $30k, how much is the mom getting? $50 bucks - same as down the street. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6896 "2018-08-27T19:37:40Z")
> [@simster](#): > > $50 bucks - same as down the street. What if you have a coupon? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6897 "2018-08-27T19:57:41Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > What if you have a coupon? Is it a groupon? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6898 "2018-08-27T20:47:00Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Is it a groupon? That costs extra. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6899 "2018-08-27T22:21:56Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Is it a groupon? It’s a grope-on. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6900 "2018-08-27T23:58:38Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The Manafort stuff is much more closely related to the original investigation - in that it at least involves contacts with Russians and such - than the Cohen stuff which is about taxi medallions and payments to strippers. Strippers? Did I miss something? What strippers? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2018, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6901 "2018-08-28T00:47:45Z")
I think he means Stormy. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2018, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6902 "2018-08-28T01:03:49Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I think he means Stormy. Oh. Okay. So, no-one was stupid enough to take donors to a strip club and expense it as such. Pity, I love when that happens. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=344) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=346)