# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 347
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2018, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6923 "2018-08-31T18:07:51Z")
Does the Deep State get two senators? We might be closer to taking the Senate than we realize. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2018, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6924 "2018-08-31T18:17:54Z")
Deep State has a shot at the championship this season, if that quarterback stays healthy. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2018, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6925 "2018-08-31T18:30:50Z")
> [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](#): > > Guilty plea expected this morning from [W. Samuel Patten](https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/31/politics/w-samuel-patten-plea-russia-ukraine/index.html), an associate of Paul Manafort’s who was apparently acting as an unregistered foreign agent for Ukraine. The matter is currently being handled by the US Attorney’s office out of DC but the charges were originally referred by Mueller’s team. Guilty AND cooperating. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6926 "2018-08-31T19:30:47Z")
Bruce Ohr testified that Christopher Steele told him that Russian intelligence told Steele that they had Trump over a barrel. [Justice Dept. lawyer says he was told Russian intelligence believed they had Trump 'over a barrel' | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/31/politics/bruce-ohr-christopher-steele-donald-trump/index.html)? ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6927 "2018-08-31T19:32:30Z")
> [@GrandWino](#): > > Guilty AND cooperating. and one of the things he pleaded to is “lying to Congress”. Marcy has some [details](https://www.emptywheel.net/2018/08/31/among-other-things-sam-patten-plea-signals-that-mueller-referrals-will-include-false-congressional-testimony/) - including the fact that he has been working on this plea since May! > [@emptywheel](#): > > His plea agreement (which notes he first made a proffer to Mueller’s team on May 22, meaning this is another investigation that has been going on months that is being finalized in the last days of August) included a cooperation agreement. > > In or about January 2018, PATTEN testified before the SSCI. Both before and during his testimony, PATTEN misled the SSCI in that he intentionally did not provide SSCI certain documents that could lead to revelation of him causing and concealing the foreign purchase of the PIC tickets, described about, and gave false and misleading testimony to avoid disclosing that he had caused and concealed foreign money to be paid to the PIC. In addition, PATTEN provided misleading testimony about his representation of foreign principals in the United States, so as to conceal his violation of the Foreign Agents Registration Act. Finally, after the interview, PATTEN deleted documents pertinent to his relationships with the above-described foreign principals. Marcy goes on to say > [@](#): > > As noted, this is one of the additional crimes that Patten will avoid being charged for by pleading to the FARA charge. Reportedly, SSCI made its own criminal referral, based off different comments. > > All of this might concern people like Don Jr, who pretty clearly lied to multiple committees. Because it shows Mueller will use such crimes for leverage. > > But Mueller probably has bigger things planned for Don Jr. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2018, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6928 "2018-08-31T19:53:36Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Tons of info in [this AP story on Bruce Ohr](https://apnews.com/4ac772445073491aa7d3ca9e558e0144/AP-sources:-Lawyer-was-told-Russia-had-'Trump-over-a-barrel'), including repeated clarification of the timeline of when the FBI got involved and why: [AP sources: Lawyer was told Russia had ‘Trump over a barrel’](https://apnews.com/4ac772445073491aa7d3ca9e558e0144/AP-sources:-Lawyer-was-told-Russia-had-'Trump-over-a-barrel'). Also, according to [letter](https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000165-903d-d38c-a96f-94bdc2850001) from Elijah Cummings, a communication between Ohr and Steele discussing “our favorite tycoon” became a Republican taking point proving they were conspiring against Trump. Ohr made it clear in recent testimony that the “favorite tycoon” they were taking about Oleg Deripaska, not Trump. Those details were conveniently omitted from documents shared with the full committee. Only the Republicans got to see those memos, which they then seem to have mischaracterized. (One of Ohr’s jobs at the DOJ was Russian money laundering and organized crime.) More from [emptywheel](https://www.emptywheel.net/2018/08/31/frothy-republicans-confuse-oleg-deripaska-and-donald-trump/). ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2018, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6929 "2018-08-31T20:04:26Z")
I think the main thing with Ohr is that there are two ways to describe the situation: 1. He was trying to help protect the country and so relaying information from information networks to the FBI, where it could be checked and acted on if it bore out. or 1. He was part of a conspiracy to bring down the future President, who no one thought would win the election. Whereas with, for example, the Veselnitskaya meeting, the options are basically: 1. Team Trump was corruptly trying to use Russian military intelligence against their enemy. or… ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2018, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6930 "2018-09-01T00:45:03Z")
We should probably discuss that the lobbyist, Patten, who pleaded guilty today admitted to[laundering money](https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/31/politics/w-samuel-patten-plea-russia-ukraine/index.html) from Ukrainians through the Trump inauguration. The same inauguration that somehow [cost 107 million](https://www.vox.com/2018/7/5/17505728/trump-inauguration-mueller-russians-rick-gates) dollars and no one can say what that was spent on, except that 26 million of it went to [a friend of Melania’s](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/15/us/politics/trumps-inaugural-committee-paid-26-million-to-first-ladys-friend.html) for services from a company that was founded six weeks earlier and no one quite knows what it is that they do. But I’m sure this is all on the up and up somehow. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2018, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6931 "2018-09-01T13:28:14Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > We should probably discuss that the lobbyist, Patten, who pleaded guilty today admitted to[laundering money](https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/31/politics/w-samuel-patten-plea-russia-ukraine/index.html) from Ukrainians through the Trump inauguration. The same inauguration that somehow [cost 107 million](https://www.vox.com/2018/7/5/17505728/trump-inauguration-mueller-russians-rick-gates) dollars and no one can say what that was spent on, except that 26 million of it went to [a friend of Melania’s](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/15/us/politics/trumps-inaugural-committee-paid-26-million-to-first-ladys-friend.html) for services from a company that was founded six weeks earlier and no one quite knows what it is that they do. > > But I’m sure this is all on the up and up somehow. I forgot all about that. it’s rather hard to keep up. The 26 million to a startup company seems odd. But all in all the overall cost does not according to [Slate](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2013/01/inauguration_2013_how_much_did_it_cost_and_who_paid_for_it.html). In fact 107 million is on the low side compared to Bush and Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2018, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6932 "2018-09-01T14:33:58Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > I forgot all about that. it’s rather hard to keep up. > > The 26 million to a startup company seems odd. But all in all the overall cost does not according to [Slate](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2013/01/inauguration_2013_how_much_did_it_cost_and_who_paid_for_it.html). In fact 107 million is on the low side compared to Bush and Obama. Not sure what comparison Slate is using, but [every other site](https://www.npr.org/2017/04/19/524727575/we-now-know-trumps-inauguration-donors-where-the-money-went-is-another-story) I see states that Trump’s inauguration costs were [twice what Obama’s were](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/15/us/politics/trumps-inaugural-committee-paid-26-million-to-first-ladys-friend.html), and yet were considerably less impressive. Making some wonder where the money went. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2018, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6933 "2018-09-01T15:11:12Z")
The $107M and $53M are donations while the higher numbers are estimated cost, so it’s not apples to apples. Trump taking in more money and spending less money would tend to support fraud or money laundering accusations. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2018, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6934 "2018-09-01T23:05:24Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > The $107M and $53M are donations while the higher numbers are estimated cost, so it’s not apples to apples. Trump taking in more money and spending less money would tend to support fraud or money laundering accusations. And let us not forget that Rick Gates was a deputy chairman of the Inaugural Committee. And he says he might have stolen from them, he can’t remember. It’s just kind of a small footnote to all the other fraud. > **[Gates admits he may have pocketed inauguration money](https://nypost.com/2018/08/14/gates-admits-he-may-have-pocketed-inauguration-money/)** > > Donald Trump’s inaugural committee pushed back hard last summer on questions about whether the unprecedented $107 million budget for the event was fraught with cost overruns and misspending. … ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2018, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6935 "2018-09-02T01:09:26Z")
They also promised to give the excess funds to charity. Judging from the quality of the inauguration, there should have been tens of millions of excess funds. [Only a few million have ended up in charity](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/15/us/politics/trumps-inaugural-committee-paid-26-million-to-first-ladys-friend.html) and much of that “charity” was to redecorate the White House. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2018, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6936 "2018-09-02T13:35:58Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > They also promised to give the excess funds to charity. Judging from the quality of the inauguration, there should have been tens of millions of excess funds. [Only a few million have ended up in charity](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/15/us/politics/trumps-inaugural-committee-paid-26-million-to-first-ladys-friend.html) and much of that “charity” was to redecorate the White House. What is surprising is the haste with which these crooks pursue every larceny they can think of, however petty. I wonder if they’re auctioning off the White House silverware and linen. (It’s also surprising that Trump supporters don’t care, though I suppose these stories go unmentioned at FauxNews and the National Dissembler.) It’s a minor point but Fuckface doesn’t even know that gifts to POTUS aren’t his property: they’re gifts to the American people that are supposed to end up in a Presidential library or White House museum. Is his petty behavior the mark of the multi-billionaire he pretends to be? It’s not just the Trump crime family itself that has greed foremost in their minds. His cabinet, all multi-millionaires, spend their time ignoring official duties and just bilking the taxpayer for dining sets and jet travel. What makes stealing the White House linen and pimping Ivanka’s made-in-China shoes at press conferences especially pathetic is that this crook, if he really were a “genius”, could sell himself out for Billions. Remember that Cohen, with no qualification except farting in the same room as Trump, charged half a million or more just for farting with top corporate executives. Trump could be charging hundreds of millions for trade deals. Before every stupid fart-tweet that sends stock in Harley-Davidson up or down several millions, he could inform a friend and make big bucks that way. Maybe he is doing that. If not, it’s probably because he doesn’t have a single friend he can trust. Muller and others of his closest fart-friends have already flipped. I have to laugh whenever someone compares this buffoon to one of history’s great despots, e.g. the moustached man or the guy whose trains ran on time: > [@Karl Marx](#): > > Hegel remarks somewhere that all great world-historic facts and personages appear, so to speak, twice. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, _ **the second time as farce** _. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2018, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6937 "2018-09-02T15:44:46Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > What is surprising is the haste with which these crooks pursue every larceny they can think of, however petty… Not to be flippant, but how on earth do you find that surprising? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2018, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6938 "2018-09-02T18:21:29Z")
He’s broke. Scrambling to pay the interest on his debt just to keep up appearances. If he stole twenty-five million from the Inauguration, that will just cover what he owes for Trump University. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2018, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6939 "2018-09-03T14:10:55Z")
Once he is no longer president, how long will it take his Russian lenders to call in their notes? After all, they’d have squeezed as much as they can out of him as they could when he was in the Most Powerful Office. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2018, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6940 "2018-09-03T16:48:36Z")
I’m wondering if they put their clamps on Manafort by using “loans”. They said something like "Hey, great job, Manny, and now its payday! We got this big wad of cash for you, but there’s this teeny tiny little problem: it’s cash, hard to hide. OK with us you want it openly declared and pay your taxes, but if you don’t…maybe best way is to arrange a series of “loans?”. And when they want to squeeze his nuts good and hard, somebody calls Manafort to have a cordial chat about his plans to pay his “loans”? ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2018, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6941 "2018-09-03T17:04:47Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Not to be flippant, but how on earth do you find that surprising? Probably because one would think the associates of “the most powerful man in the world” could come up with something better than skimming a few hundred thousand, or even a million or so, off the top. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2018, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6942 "2018-09-03T19:38:31Z")
> [@j666](#): > > Probably because one would think the associates of “the most powerful man in the world” could come up with something better than skimming a few hundred thousand, or even a million or so, off the top. only the \_best\_people. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=346) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=348)