# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 348
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2018, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6943 "2018-09-03T19:53:41Z")
Once a small-time grifter, always a small-time grifter. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6944 "2018-09-04T17:49:37Z")
I’m confused by something that came out from [Woodword’s book](https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/04/politics/bob-woodward-book-donald-trump-fear/index.html) this morning: \*"Then, in an even more remarkable move, Dowd and Trump’s current personal attorney Jay Sekulow went to Mueller’s office and re-enacted the mock interview. Their goal: to argue that Trump couldn’t possibly testify because he was incapable of telling the truth. “He just made something up. That’s his nature,” Dowd said to Mueller. \* So, the president’s lawyers went to Mueller and told him that he couldn’t testify because he would lie? What sort of strategy is that? ---
**Author:** ![Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambrosio_Spinola)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6945 "2018-09-04T18:00:28Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > So, the president’s lawyers went to Mueller and told him that he couldn’t testify because he would lie? What sort of strategy is that? Calling Trump’s statements _lies_ implies that he knows what the truth actually is and is saying something different for some reason of his own, which happens sometimes. But just from what’s publicly available it’s clear that he’s got something approaching an actual mental disorder if not over that line when he’ll just make up random crap for no particular reason and with no actual knowledge of whether it’s true or not. So I would think that the discussion with Mueller’s team was less “he’s a liar” than “he’s crazy”. Which is hardly exculpatory, but that’s probably the best his attorneys have to offer. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6946 "2018-09-04T18:06:13Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I’m confused by something that came out from [Woodword’s book](https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/04/politics/bob-woodward-book-donald-trump-fear/index.html) this morning: > > \*"Then, in an even more remarkable move, Dowd and Trump’s current personal attorney Jay Sekulow went to Mueller’s office and re-enacted the mock interview. Their goal: to argue that Trump couldn’t possibly testify because he was incapable of telling the truth. > > “He just made something up. That’s his nature,” Dowd said to Mueller. \* > > So, the president’s lawyers went to Mueller and told him that he couldn’t testify because he would lie? What sort of strategy is that? My best guess (assuming the depiction is accurate) is that they operated on the assumption that Mueller was making a good faith effort to get to the bottom of the issue and not a perjury trap. So they essentially told Mueller “look, you’re not going to get any useful information out of Trump because he’s such a liar anyway”. Mueller’s job is not to determine that Trump is a liar, and if they could convince him that bottom line he would not be able to get a clearer picture of the collusion or obstruction facts by interviewing Trump, perhaps he would back off. Doesn’t seem to have worked, in any event. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6947 "2018-09-04T21:18:23Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > This kind of thing is why **Mueller needs to subpoena thump: he cannot keep his yap shut.** If he knows something (or thinks he knows it), he will just urp it out without a second thought. He probably sees that as \*winning \*a discussion. If Mueller started to question him, he would not be able to keep from spilling all the beans just to prove that he knows more shit than anyone else. I think in some backward Bizarro world, he would see this as _beating Mueller at his own game_, or some twisted variation of that. According to recent reports (or leaks?) tRump has been subjected to two “practice interrogations”, administered by his White House flunkies so far. He failed both miserably, but he claims to have aced them. He kept making shit up, and wouldn’t/couldn’t stick to a script. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6948 "2018-09-04T21:22:24Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > He’s broke. Scrambling to pay the interest on his debt just to keep up appearances. If he stole twenty-five million from the Inauguration, that will just cover what he owes for Trump University. Why? Haven’t the Russians paid him enough??? ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6949 "2018-09-04T21:29:04Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > What is surprising is the haste with which these crooks pursue every larceny they can think of, however petty. I wonder if they’re auctioning off the White House silverware and linen. (It’s also surprising that Trump supporters don’t care, though I suppose these stories go unmentioned at FauxNews and the National Dissembler.) It’s a minor point but Fuckface doesn’t even know that gifts to POTUS aren’t his property: they’re gifts to the American people that are supposed to end up in a Presidential library or White House museum. Is his petty behavior the mark of the multi-billionaire he pretends to be? > It’s not just the Trump crime family itself that has greed foremost in their minds. His cabinet, all multi-millionaires, spend their time ignoring official duties and just bilking the taxpayer for dining sets and jet travel. > > What makes stealing the White House linen and pimping Ivanka’s made-in-China shoes at press conferences especially pathetic is that this crook, if he really were a “genius”, could sell himself out for Billions. Remember that Cohen, with no qualification except farting in the same room as Trump, charged half a million or more just for farting with top corporate executives. Trump could be charging hundreds of millions for trade deals. Before every stupid fart-tweet that sends stock in Harley-Davidson up or down several millions, he could inform a friend and make big bucks that way. > > Maybe he is doing that. If not, it’s probably because he doesn’t have a single friend he can trust. Muller and others of his closest fart-friends have already flipped. > > I have to laugh whenever someone compares this buffoon to one of history’s great despots, e.g. the moustached man or the guy whose trains ran on time: There is currently an anti Claire McCaskill ad running in Missouri, where they try to insinuate that her husband’s business has made millions from government subsidies that she has voted in favor of. True or not, I find it ironic that they are running this ad deep in the heart of Trump country. I thought elected officials bilking the government for millions was what this administration is all about! ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6950 "2018-09-04T21:54:12Z")
> [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](#): > > Calling Trump’s statements _lies_ implies that he knows what the truth actually is and is saying something different for some reason of his own, which happens sometimes. But just from what’s publicly available it’s clear that he’s got something approaching an actual mental disorder if not over that line when he’ll just make up random crap for no particular reason and with no actual knowledge of whether it’s true or not. So I would think that the discussion with Mueller’s team was less “he’s a liar” than “he’s crazy”. Which is hardly exculpatory, but that’s probably the best his attorneys have to offer. Ah, the old “confabulator defense”. Isn’t that what he ran on 2 years ago? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6951 "2018-09-04T22:27:11Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Why? Haven’t the Russians paid him enough??? Kinda depends. If it was mostly money-laundering, then he would get a cut but not the money. Enough? Dunno. But if the inducement was in the form of loans? I think thats a major part in how the Russians got Manafort from useful idiot to bound servant. They gave him his payday in the form of loans. Don’t worry about it, its just a formality, we won’t ask for it back. And like an idiot, or someone in the throes of greed-induced psychosis…he trusted them. (I’ve heard that when the mouse trap works, the mouse is dead so fast he doesn’t hear the snap.) That’s what he was talking about when he sought to use his position to “get whole”. What could have been bigger than a cut of money-laundering? In a word, Exxon. Exxon was in a position to save Putin’s economic bacon with the plan to explore/exploit Arctic oil reserves. For a while there, looked like that might actually work! Got the President of Exxon to be Secretary of State, looking good! (If Putin had the money to do it himself and not cut Exxon in for a bigger share, well, wouldn’t he? Which means, he didn’t. Also, he doesn’t. Big problem with plutocracy, once you steal everything, there isn’t anything for anybody else but vodka and apathy.) Follow the money. Pile up the receipts, the records on his desk. Then put down a gracefully worded resignation document along with a nod from Pence to pardon everybody. Nobody goes to jail, but he’s outa there! I would accept it. I would puke my guts out, but I would accept it. Desperate times, desperate measures. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6952 "2018-09-04T23:12:04Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I’m confused by something that came out from [Woodword’s book](https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/04/politics/bob-woodward-book-donald-trump-fear/index.html) this morning: > > \*"Then, in an even more remarkable move, Dowd and Trump’s current personal attorney Jay Sekulow went to Mueller’s office and re-enacted the mock interview. Their goal: to argue that Trump couldn’t possibly testify because he was incapable of telling the truth. > > “He just made something up. That’s his nature,” Dowd said to Mueller. \* > > So, the president’s lawyers went to Mueller and told him that he couldn’t testify because he would lie? What sort of strategy is that? So, Trump is too mentally incompetent to be deposed. MAGA!!! I don’t think it’s just dishonesty, although there is that. Trump really does seem to live in a fantasy world where he seems to think whatever he believes is true (or should be). Has anybody been watching _Preacher_ on AMC? My new nickname for Trump is **Humperdoo**. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6953 "2018-09-04T23:43:49Z")
New: [Mueller Will Accept Some Written Answers From Trump](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/04/us/politics/mueller-trump-russia-investigation.html) > [@NYT](#): > > The special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, will accept written answers from President Trump on questions about whether his campaign conspired with Russia’s election interference, Mr. Mueller’s office told Mr. Trump’s lawyers in a letter, two people briefed on it said on Tuesday. > > But on another significant aspect of the investigation — whether the president tried to obstruct the inquiry itself — Mr. Mueller and his investigators understood that issues of executive privilege could complicate their pursuit of a presidential interview and did not ask for written responses on that matter, according to the letter, which was sent on Friday. I think the Russia stuff is a bargaining chip. Mueller already has all the evidence he needs. But an obstruction charge requires evidence of Trump’s state of mind when taking certain actions, and an interview may be the only way to get it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6954 "2018-09-04T23:53:39Z")
Or, it could be a formality, to fend off criticisms that he didn’t let Trump defend himself. Have no real idea what Mueller thinks about anything. As I’ve said, some guys play their cards close to their vest, his cards are stapled to his tits! ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6955 "2018-09-05T00:46:38Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > New: [Mueller Will Accept Some Written Answers From Trump](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/04/us/politics/mueller-trump-russia-investigation.html) > > I think the Russia stuff is a bargaining chip. Mueller already has all the evidence he needs. But an obstruction charge requires evidence of Trump’s state of mind when taking certain actions, and an interview may be the only way to get it. This is according to Trump’s side. Mueller’s side, as usual, has said nothing. So, not sure there is reason to believe any of this. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6956 "2018-09-05T01:00:31Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > There is currently an anti Claire McCaskill ad running in Missouri, where they try to insinuate that her husband’s business has made millions from government subsidies that she has voted in favor of. True or not, I find it ironic that they are running this ad deep in the heart of Trump country. I thought elected officials bilking the government for millions was what this administration is all about! It _is_ about that, but you have to include the next step: ‘projecting the crimes you’re currently committing onto the opposition, while claiming to be Selfless Servants of the People’ (cue the patriotic music and clip of a soaring eagle). > [@dasmoocher](#): > > … Has anybody been watching _Preacher_ on AMC? My new nickname for Trump is **Humperdoo**. But Humperdoo isn’t a bully who enjoys sticking it to other people. He’s a guy with an IQ of about 45 on his best day, but he’s not an asshole. So, maybe Trump is Evil Humperdoo? ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6957 "2018-09-05T01:20:05Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > But Humperdoo isn’t a bully who enjoys sticking it to other people. He’s a guy with an IQ of about 45 on his best day, but he’s not an asshole. > > So, maybe Trump is Evil Humperdoo? That works for me. I’m reminded of the Trump Administration’s motto: Malice, tempered with incompetence. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6958 "2018-09-05T01:22:54Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > I’m reminded of the Trump Administration’s motto: > > Malice, tempered with incompetence. That should be in Latin. Can anyone translate? ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6959 "2018-09-05T01:48:13Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > That should be in Latin. Can anyone translate? Maleus Incus STAPES! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6960 "2018-09-05T02:39:44Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > This is according to Trump’s side. Mueller’s side, as usual, has said nothing. So, not sure there is reason to believe any of this. > [@jasg](#): > > That should be in Latin. Can anyone translate? No, I don’t know what tense and voice mottos are in,and I fear the nouns would be in the mysterious dative, but the word to use for malice is **scelus** : crime, wickedness, sin, misdeed, felony, malice and for incompetence **inscitia** : ignorance, folly, inexperience, incompetence, incompetency, want of skill the best choice for temper here is actually tempero ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6961 "2018-09-05T02:58:16Z")
_Scelus per stultitia impeditum_. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/6962 "2018-09-05T03:39:24Z")
If you’re trying to pitch this to Trump, I’d go with, “Alicemay, emperedtay ithway incompetenceay.” He wouldn’t know the difference. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=347) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=349)