# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 354
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7063 "2018-09-14T20:23:25Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > It is absolutely the second one. > > Criminals are convinced everyone’s a criminal. Really. I’ve known common criminals, and to a man they just assume everyone else is the same way, and that the only difference between people is how good they are at getting away with it. > > Donald Trump has absolutely, unquestionably committed many crimes, but he is quite certain everyone commits the same crimes he does and that he doesn’t deserve to be punished for his, because some people are worse. What you write is absolutely true as a general rule, but I’m not sure if it’s true of Trump. Because his connection with truth and reality in general are so tenuous that it’s perfectly conceivable that he could believe he’s never committed a single crime in his life. [As discussed repeatedly in this and other threads, I don’t think he colluded with the Russians to hack the election. But I do think he has undoubtedly “committed many crimes” over the course of his career, and the above applies to those.] ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7064 "2018-09-14T20:42:43Z")
I think that it’s likely that he thinks both, simultaneously. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7065 "2018-09-14T21:18:54Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > I’ve been mostly away from the news since last night… Um, you can’t do that anymore, okay? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7066 "2018-09-14T21:45:50Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > It is absolutely the second one. > > Criminals are convinced everyone’s a criminal. Really. I’ve known common criminals, and to a man they just assume everyone else is the same way, and that the only difference between people is how good they are at getting away with it. > > Donald Trump has absolutely, unquestionably committed many crimes, but he is quite certain everyone commits the same crimes he does and that he doesn’t deserve to be punished for his, because some people are worse. I agree. Remember his comments on the Trump Tower meeting with the Russkis: “Any politician would sit down with someone who says they have dirt on his opponent.” ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7067 "2018-09-14T21:48:27Z")
Most of us feel a bit of both, at least sometimes. Remember how you felt the last time you got caught in a speed trap. But, yes, there are many who take that to a whole ‘nother level. And some who take it to a ‘presidential’ level. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7068 "2018-09-14T23:01:18Z")
I find it telling that it is now being reported than one of Manafort’s conditions for flipping was federal protection for his family. Shows the kind of people trump has been dealing with, as if we needed further evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7069 "2018-09-14T23:29:45Z")
Trump has been very quiet today. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7070 "2018-09-14T23:31:48Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Trump has been very quiet today. Sometime around 3 or 4 in the morning, given his insomnia, I except there to be about a dozen or so rage tweets sent while his aging prostate sends him to the bathroom. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7071 "2018-09-14T23:40:04Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Trump has been very quiet today. Making it an even better day than it already was. I’m sure it won’t last, but I’m enjoying the sound of a man beginning to realize his goose is well and truly cooked. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7072 "2018-09-15T00:00:36Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I find it telling that it is now being reported than one of Manafort’s conditions for flipping was federal protection for his family. Shows the kind of people trump has been dealing with, as if we needed further evidence. I’ve heard several accounts that say it’s unusual for an attorney to mention the _safety_ of the client’s family as having been part of the decision-making process: > [@](#): > > Kevin Downing, an attorney for Manafort, gave a brief statement outside the courthouse after the plea hearing. “ **He wanted to make sure his family remained safe** and live a good life,” Downing said of Manafort. “He has accepted responsibility.” [Ex-Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort will cooperate with Mueller as part of guilty plea – Chicago Tribune](http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-manafort-hearing-plea-deal-20180914-story.html) So, yes. I would guess that Manafort may fear for his own safety in prison, but fears for the lives of his family were what propelled him to make a deal with the feds. Presumably some sort of protection package was offered. Most people want to think of themselves as being protective of their families; Manafort may have reached the conclusion that his self-respect required making a deal. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7073 "2018-09-15T00:39:01Z")
I am also assuming that the deal does not leave the Manafort family destitute. Certainly in reduced circumstances (and maybe at a level that the majority of American’s would envy) and some kind of dwelling for when Manafort finally gets out of jail. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7074 "2018-09-15T02:38:51Z")
I would assume he’s on suicide watch, right? ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7075 "2018-09-15T02:53:38Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > I am also assuming that the deal does not leave the Manafort family destitute. Certainly in reduced circumstances (and maybe at a level that the majority of American’s would envy) and some kind of dwelling for when Manafort finally gets out of jail. Gets out of jail? You really think that will happen? ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7076 "2018-09-15T03:02:01Z")
Just guessing but yes. Without a deal, Manafort knows he will die in prison, his family destitute and targets. You want him to roll over on the President of the United States? Cut a deal that is going to be painful but gives him some upside. 10 years? He’ll be 77. Manafort is not noble or stand up, he’s a greedy fucking bastard that got away with it his whole life. So, what should he do? What he’s always done, and that is look out for number one and make a deal in his best interest. Hmmm, that reminds me of someone else in his circle, maybe someone he used to work for… ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7077 "2018-09-15T03:33:10Z")
> [@glowacks](#): > > Gets out of jail? You really think that will happen? Corpses reek. And they need the cell. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7078 "2018-09-15T04:38:12Z")
What if he never gets out? What if he got enough bennies that he is willing to be the fall guy, take the rap to grant immunity to younger criminals. Family, friends… not Trump. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7079 "2018-09-16T04:49:25Z")
[How a Ukrainian Hairdresser Became a Front for Paul Manafort](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/15/world/europe/ukraine-paul-manafort.html) > [@](#): > > One man identified in the Ukrainian media as a homeless Latvian named Erik Vanagels has been listed as the owner of hundreds of companies in Britain, Cyprus, Ireland, New Zealand, Panama and elsewhere. Companies in the network also helped finance the private zoo and sprawling estate of the former Ukrainian president, Viktor F. Yanukovych, who was the main client of Mr. Manafort. > > Mr. Manafort’s finances also intersected with companies of Mr. Vanagels and another Latvian whose name was used as a director, Stan Gorin. Among the murky transactions these companies engaged in was an $18 million deal to sell Ukrainian cable television assets to a partnership called Pericles that put together by Mr. Manafort and financed by a Russian oligarch, Oleg V. Deripaska, according to a Cayman Islands lawsuit and Cypriot corporate records. Nuts. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7080 "2018-09-16T14:30:30Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > [How a Ukrainian Hairdresser Became a Front for Paul Manafort](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/15/world/europe/ukraine-paul-manafort.html) > > Nuts. What’s nuts is how fucking brazen one has to be in order to get caught. I mean, if this guy hadn’t been the campaign manager of a fellow criminal who pulled off an unlikely electoral win who was too stupid to avoid a special counsel investigation, he would still be doing this shit. Which means there are a lot of people out there doing this shit with absolute impunity. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7081 "2018-09-16T15:22:03Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > I’m beginning to think Trump is too stupid to be worried or understand what’s going on. I think he’s just too arrogant, and far far too used to getting away with everything. Lying, bullying, threatening have always worked for him. But before, he was able to sort of hide it. And now there are some people that will NOT back down or be cowed. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7082 "2018-09-17T01:52:41Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I would assume he’s on suicide watch, right? Who? Manafort or the Great Cheeto? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=353) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=355)