# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 356
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7103 "2018-09-18T17:49:16Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > obviously cherry picking things out of context and not releasing what makes him look bad. > > Christ, it’s as stupid as he thought firing Comney would win over everyone who thought Comney put his finger on the scale against Hillary. The two wrongs make a white argument. Or to be clear, I thought Comney clearly put his finger on the scale, and I still wanted him and the FBI to investigate Russian election interference. Those are not diametrically opposed thoughts. He thought that the pre election stuff meant that Comey was going to be his private cop, another loyal soldier. That’s why he invited him to that strange private dinner. That whole dinner thing was like sexual harassment, except with corruption instead of sex. The tactic is one harassers use all the time, invite your victim to a party or dinner and lead them to believe it’s a group thing, then surprise them with a “private party” when they arrive. The whole incident was Comeys #MeToo moment. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7104 "2018-09-18T17:52:07Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > He thought that the pre election stuff meant that Comey was going to be his private cop, another loyal soldier. That’s why he invited him to that strange private dinner. > > That whole dinner thing was like sexual harassment, except with corruption instead of sex. The tactic is one harassers use all the time, invite your victim to a party or dinner and lead them to believe it’s a group thing, then surprise them with a “private party” when they arrive. The whole incident was Comeys #MeToo moment. That’s pretty insightful. I’d never thought of it like that. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7105 "2018-09-18T18:53:07Z")
The Manafort plea deal says that if he gets pardoned by Trump, Manafort can be re-tried on the charges he was not charged on. > **[Trump-proof aspects of Manafort deal rankle lawyers](https://www.politico.com/amp/story/2018/09/18/manafort-deal-pardon-mueller-trump-827898?__twitter_impression=true)** > > Robert Mueller seems to have built in safeguards to discourage the president from pardoning Manafort. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7106 "2018-09-18T19:01:15Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > The Manafort plea deal says that if he gets pardoned by Trump, Manafort can be re-tried on the charges he was not charged on. > [https://www.politico.com/amp/story/2018/09/18/manafort-deal-pardon-mueller-trump-827898?\_\_twitter\_impression=true](https://www.politico.com/amp/story/2018/09/18/manafort-deal-pardon-mueller-trump-827898?__twitter_impression=true) That’s fuckin sweet! ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7107 "2018-09-18T19:36:36Z")
I don’t really see the point of that provision. If Trump pardons him, he could just pardon him for those other charges at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![steatopygia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steatopygia/32/3132_2.png) [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7108 "2018-09-18T19:38:45Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > I don’t really see the point of that provision. If Trump pardons him, he could just pardon him for those other charges at the same time. Not if he isn’t the president any longer. For whatever reason. Could he pardon all crimes, whether charged and convicted? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7109 "2018-09-18T19:44:39Z")
> [@steatopygia](#): > > Not if he isn’t the president any longer. For whatever reason. Could he pardon all crimes, whether charged and convicted? All crimes? No. All crimes laid out in the indictment, even if not charged? Absolutely. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7110 "2018-09-18T23:59:43Z")
Right. Remember Jimmy Carter pardoning draft dodgers from the Vietnam War. It was a blanket amnesty, whether or not they’d been charged individually. [Carter pardons draft dodgers Jan. 21, 1977](https://www.politico.com/story/2008/01/carter-pardons-draft-dodgers-jan-21-1977-007974) ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7111 "2018-09-19T00:24:25Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > All crimes? No. All crimes laid out in the indictment, even if not charged? Absolutely. But not, as I know you are aware, state crimes. AIUI, Manafort pleaded to all criminal acts in excruciating detail ([24 pages!](https://www.lawfareblog.com/document-superseding-criminal-information-against-paul-manafort)). The guilty pleas can be used as evidence in cases brought at the state level, all of which are beyond Trump’s pardon reach. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7112 "2018-09-19T00:50:35Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > …Which is exactly why he is so dangerous to our national interests. There is _nothing_ he won’t do to protect himself. Paraphrasing a familiar Republican pundit (can’t recall his name) last night on The Circus, the past two years may come to be known as The Calm Years. And it scared the shit out of him (me, too). We just have to hope there are enough people around him who will refuse his orders, to save the species. Because if they’re all of the ilk of Devin Nunes or Stephen Miller, kiss _Homo sapiens_ goodbye. > [@DesertDog](#): > > Too true. I put him in the same category as your typical internet bully, all bluster, no balls even by proxy. What I’m worried about is one of his [del]deplorables[/del] followers doing something on his own like that doofus who self-investigated pizzagate. > > Can’t you see one of them putting a couple rounds into Mexico’s ambassador? Or into anyone who fails to look Swedish, really. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7113 "2018-09-20T13:34:10Z")
Sarah Palin accidentally describes [how investigations work](https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/407485-sarah-palin-mueller-will-keep-fishing-until-he-gets-something). \*“When we go fishing, have we ever stopped before we caught something?” Palin told DailyMailTV of the Russia investigation in an interview published Wednesday. “No…we keep fishing.” 'Unfortunately, that is what’s going on in our country,” the 2008 GOP vice presidential nominee said.\* ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7114 "2018-09-20T13:46:22Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Sarah Palin accidentally describes [how investigations work](https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/407485-sarah-palin-mueller-will-keep-fishing-until-he-gets-something). > > \*“When we go fishing, have we ever stopped before we caught something?” Palin told DailyMailTV of the Russia investigation in an interview published Wednesday. “No…we keep fishing.” > > 'Unfortunately, that is what’s going on in our country,” the 2008 GOP vice presidential nominee said.\* Guess Sarah fishes in mud puddles until she comes up with something. Mueller is ‘fishing’ in an ocean of Sharks, Barracudas and Clown Fish. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7115 "2018-09-21T18:10:04Z")
[NYTimes is reporting](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/21/us/politics/rod-rosenstein-wear-wire-25th-amendment.html) that Rosenstein may have secretly recorded the president and discussed 25th Amendment options. The conspiracy theorist in me thinks this is being leaked as a pretext to fire him… ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7116 "2018-09-21T18:21:26Z")
Of course it is. This is just going to fuel the “deep state” feelings of the Repub base and distract from chump’s attacks on Ford this morning. I hope Mueller drops all his stuff on the state AGs this afternoon. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7117 "2018-09-21T18:48:54Z")
That makes 3 of us. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7118 "2018-09-21T19:23:00Z")
Related? Michael Cohen unexpectedly in court this afternoon. > **[Michael Cohen visits NY courthouse a month after guilty plea](https://apnews.com/4e39e23feaa44de198829f5d4f573940)** > > NEW YORK (AP) — President Donald Trump's former lawyer, Michael Cohen, paid an unannounced visit Friday to the federal courthouse in New York where he pleaded guilty a month ago. Cohen, 51, left the building about 1:30 p.m. Friday, declining to say... ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7119 "2018-09-21T19:38:44Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Related? Michael Cohen unexpectedly in court this afternoon. > > [Michael Cohen visits NY courthouse a month after guilty plea | AP News](https://apnews.com/4e39e23feaa44de198829f5d4f573940) Pretty much guaranteed related. Michael has been working with Mueller’s team quite a lot over the past month. Hours and hours and hours of discussions. Also NY AG Barbara Underwood. My, my, my. It’s getting easier to list with whom Mueller _doesn’t_ have cooperation than with whom he does. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7120 "2018-09-22T03:33:08Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > [NYTimes is reporting](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/21/us/politics/rod-rosenstein-wear-wire-25th-amendment.html) that Rosenstein may have secretly recorded the president and discussed 25th Amendment options. The conspiracy theorist in me thinks this is being leaked as a pretext to fire him… By some accounts this was a poorly-sourced story. NBC had a source in the room when Rosenstein supposedly, according to the NYT, floated taping Trump as a serious suggestion–and the NBC source says Rosenstein was clearly being sarcastic. The NYT had NO source in the room. What they’ve accomplished is to give Trump the excuse he’s been looking for to fire Rosenstein. Seems profoundly irresponsible to report R. was serious, if they didn’t actually have ears in the room. > **[Rosenstein joked about secretly recording Trump, Justice Department officials...](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/rosenstein-joked-about-secretly-recording-trump-say-sources-n911981)** > > "Well, what do you want me to do, Andy, wear a wire?" the deputy attorney general asked FBI official Andrew McCabe at a meeting last year. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7121 "2018-09-22T03:37:55Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > By some accounts this was a poorly-sourced story. NBC had a source in the room when Rosenstein supposedly, according to the NYT, floated taping Trump as a serious suggestion–and the NBC source says Rosenstein was clearly being sarcastic. > > The NYT had NO source in the room. > > What they’ve accomplished is to give Trump the excuse he’s been looking for to fire Rosenstein. Seems profoundly irresponsible to report R. was serious, if they didn’t actually have ears in the room. > > [https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/rosenstein-joked-about-secretly-recording-trump-say-sources-n911981](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/rosenstein-joked-about-secretly-recording-trump-say-sources-n911981) [But then Hannity tonight advised Trump not to fire anyone](https://thehill.com/homenews/media/407893-hannity-urges-trump-not-to-fire-anybody-after-rosenstein-report), as he says the Deep State is now crumbling. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7122 "2018-09-22T03:41:50Z")
Sorry for the delay in answering; I just fell off my chair at the thought of Hannity saying something that would (inadvertently, I’m sure) protect Mueller. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=355) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=357)