# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 360
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7183 "2018-10-12T14:41:03Z")
Rather than written responses, it would be so much more fun if they had Giuliani record a video response to each question. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7184 "2018-10-12T14:49:45Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Rather than written responses, it would be so much more fun if they had Giuliani record a video response to each question. Perhaps using charades or interpretive dance. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7185 "2018-10-12T16:39:29Z")
Speaking of Giuliani – it feels like it’s been months since any of these names have been in the news: Giuliani, Avennatti, Michael Cohen, Stormy Daniels…there was a flare-up of Rod Rosenstein speculation a few weeks back that all amounted to nothin’. This makes me nervous. In my fevered mind if there isn’t news every day about how inevitable it is that Trump’s going to jail, then the Democrats won’t take back the House in the mid-terms and our Republic is doomed. [breathing into a paper bag] ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7186 "2018-10-12T18:16:25Z")
ABC is doing an interview with Melania tonight, and they released a couple of snippets. One of them was a question about Rudy Giuliani saying that Melania didn’t believe Stormy Daniels. In the interview, she replied to the interviewer that she has never spoken to Giuliani. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7187 "2018-10-12T18:33:47Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Speaking of Giuliani – it feels like it’s been months since any of these names have been in the news: Giuliani, Avennatti, Michael Cohen, Stormy Daniels…there was a flare-up of Rod Rosenstein speculation a few weeks back that all amounted to nothin’. > > This makes me nervous. In my fevered mind if there isn’t news every day about how inevitable it is that Trump’s going to jail, then the Democrats won’t take back the House in the mid-terms and our Republic is doomed. > > [breathing into a paper bag] Avenatti was all over the news during the Kavanaugh hearings representing Julie Swetnick. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7188 "2018-10-12T18:38:42Z")
> [@GrandWino](#): > > Avenatti was all over the news during the Kavanaugh hearings representing Julie Swetnick. I think I’m discounting that because it seemed pretty blatant grandstanding and also had nothing to do with Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7189 "2018-10-12T21:11:43Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Speaking of Giuliani – it feels like it’s been months since any of these names have been in the news: Giuliani, Avennatti, Michael Cohen, Stormy Daniels…there was a flare-up of Rod Rosenstein speculation a few weeks back that all amounted to nothin’. > > This makes me nervous. In my fevered mind if there isn’t news every day about how inevitable it is that Trump’s going to jail, then the Democrats won’t take back the House in the mid-terms and our Republic is doomed. > \*\* > [breathing into a paper bag]\*\* This gave me a much-needed giggle this morning. Thank you. 🙂 Mueller isn’t going to put a foot wrong, including to make himself vulnerable to criticism for doing anything “political” in advance of a mid-term election. Of course one could argue that Trump isn’t on any ballot and the policy therefore doesn’t apply, but why waste time arguing when all he has to do is wait a few more weeks to avoid the kerfuffle? Besides, you can be sure the extra time will be put to good use. I agree with **friedo**. The strength of Mueller’s case is going to be like watching a rabid mouse get run over by an M1 Abrams tank. Though his team remains as silent as the grave, we have enough hints of what’s to come to understand that Trump is toast. E.g., there is [this](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/10/15/was-there-a-connection-between-a-russian-bank-and-the-trump-campaign) recent article published in the New Yorker, further researching the original article in [Slate Magazine](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/cover_story/2016/10/was_a_server_registered_to_the_trump_organization_communicating_with_russia.html) published on October 31, 2016. What is revealed in the New Yorker article is the fact that the communication between a Russian Alfa Bank server and the Trump Organization server was originally provided to the New York Times in August of 2016, but the Times sat on the story at the request of the FBI. We can debate the ethical nature of the Times’ decision, but the FBI was worried their sources and methods would be compromised if the Times’ article was published and it became known they were already investigating Trump and his Russian connections. The point is, the FBI already had chased down this very important information _by the time the first piece was published in October 2016_. Not only that, but they presumably subpoenaed the records from the Trump Organization server’s home base in Lititz, Pennsylvania – which will have revealed the actual nature of the communications. So more than 2 years ago, the FBI already had all that. There were roughly 2,500 communications between the Alfa Bank and Trump Organization servers from May through September 2016. And Mueller knows exactly what every single one of them was. Re that bastard Kavanaugh, he is but one Justice\*. I have a feeling Roberts is going to side with the more liberal judges on these matters, being that he’s a strict constructionist and the very foundation of our Constitution is that no man is above the law. Roberts doesn’t want to be the one whose SCOTUS turns the Constitution into a total mockery. Take heart and breathe. 🙂 We’re still in for a rough ride, but Mueller knows what he’s doing. \*The one who sexually assaults women. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7190 "2018-10-12T21:51:15Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > …Re that bastard Kavanaugh, he is but one Justice\*. … > > \*The one who sexually assaults women. Well, one of two anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7191 "2018-10-12T22:16:02Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Well, one of two anyway. I draw a distinction between verbal sexual harassment and physical sexual assault. Neither should be tolerated, but they are of differing degrees of severity. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7192 "2018-10-12T22:41:49Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Kavanaugh will factor in the Mueller and other federal investigations. > > And not in a good way. > [@SteveG1](#): > > He’s there, to be Trump’s “GET OUT OF JAIL FREE” card. Kavanaugh (by my read) has his first loyalty to the Republican party. He’ll do whatever they want of him. If that means backing Trump, then he’ll back Trump. If it means throwing Trump under the bus, then he’ll do that. The party and the base are two very different things and whatever the party may do, publicly, to support Trump and act like they’re all besties doesn’t mean that that’s the reality. They know that he and his crimes are a liability to the party, and if they have to toss a can of gasoline on him and light a torch, to protect the party, then it’s just a short walk for graham crackers, marshmallows, and chocolate. ---
**Author:** ![MindsEye\_Watering](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindseye_watering/32/3619_2.png) [@MindsEye\_Watering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MindsEye_Watering)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7193 "2018-10-12T23:05:35Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Take heart and breathe. 🙂 We’re still in for a rough ride, but Mueller knows what he’s doing. Thanks for this. Really. This makes me feel a bit better. For an hour or two. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7194 "2018-10-13T00:56:22Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > E.g., there is [this](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/10/15/was-there-a-connection-between-a-russian-bank-and-the-trump-campaign) recent article published in the New Yorker, further researching the original article in [Slate Magazine](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/cover_story/2016/10/was_a_server_registered_to_the_trump_organization_communicating_with_russia.html) published on October 31, 2016. > > What is revealed in the New Yorker article is the fact that the communication between a Russian Alfa Bank server and the Trump Organization server was originally provided to the New York Times in August of 2016, but the Times sat on the story at the request of the FBI. We can debate the ethical nature of the Times’ decision, but the FBI was worried their sources and methods would be compromised if the Times’ article was published and it became known they were already investigating Trump and his Russian connections. > > **The point is, the FBI already had chased down this very important information _by the time the first piece was published in October 2016_**. Not only that, but they presumably subpoenaed the records from the Trump Organization server’s home base in Lititz, Pennsylvania – which will have revealed the actual nature of the communications. > > So more than 2 years ago, the FBI already had all that. There were roughly 2,500 communications between the Alfa Bank and Trump Organization servers from May through September 2016. … Yes, the FBI had this _concrete, verified, corroborated information_ of ties between the Trump campaign and Russia, in the October before the 2016 presidential election. And the FBI had some emails on a laptop that a few hours of work would have been shown to be _irrelevant_ to the investigation into Hillary Clinton’s use of an email server. So … which one did James Comey feel he HAD to reveal in the days before the election? ((((It may look like a dead horse and smell like a dead horse, but, dammit, it’s still important to ask _how and why_ the system could have worked that way.)))) my bolding in the quote ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7195 "2018-10-13T03:12:37Z")
Hey, **Mind’s Eye, Watering** , we can all use a respite, no matter how brief. Glad I could provide you with one. 🙂 **Sherrerd** , I get your anger. I made the exact same point at least 2 years ago somewhere on this site. Since then, I’ve read extensively about all this, and I’m not saying Comey’s decision was the correct one. In fact, I think it was a bad one. But FWIW, I don’t believe his motives were nefarious. Here’s why: 1. Comey himself was frantic to try and warn Americans of the Trump/Russia activity. He took it up with Obama and even proposed writing an editorial piece outlining the activity in advance of the election. Obama nixed the proposal, concerned that the activity was not yet clearly defined. Given the atmosphere of the moment, Obama was hesitant to raise charges without specific information. In fact, Obama particularly forbade Comey from making the information public. 2. When Obama approached Mitch McConnell in an effort to warn the public of potential Russian interference in a bipartisan way, McConnell not only rejected the offer out of hand, but threatened to accuse Obama of attempted interference if he (Obama) alone revealed what was known. Again, since the investigation was only in its beginning stages, Obama felt he might push more votes away from Clinton if he made the information public than if he didn’t. So again, nothing was said. 3. I’m sure you remember Trump’s endless claims that if he lost the election, it would be because it was “rigged” – implying that Democrats rigged it, rather than the exact opposite reality. We now know that Opposite Day is standard operating procedure for Trump. But in that moment, few had tumbled to the tactic. Both Obama and Comey understood that Trump would seize on this narrative if either of them went public with their nascent information. In the end, the Powers That Be settled on the joint statement by all the intelligence agencies issued on October 7th that there was a “high probability” that Russia was interfering with our election. This was, as I’m sure you remember, the same day that the “grab 'em by the pussy” footage first aired. It was also the same day that John Podesta’s emails were released by the Russians. The importance if the joint statement was basically lost in the media tornado. What a coincidence, eh? 1. Comey had a big problem within his own agency with the “Giuliani” New York branch of the FBI, all closely aligned with Trump. Some of those agents were threatening to leak the Weiner information. Comey wanted to deal with this concern internally and hoped that his public Clinton admonishments would damp down the rumored mutiny. But because he had spoken publicly about closing the email investigation in July and stated he would advise Congress if anything new came up, he boxed himself in when further information arose. And remember, Comey didn’t release that information publicly. He sent a memo to leaders in Congress – that was instantly leaked by Congress. Comey’s first fatal error was to step outside FBI policy to publicly flog Hillary Clinton despite not filing charges after the endless email investigation. Terrible decision and one he was warned against making. OTOH, AG Loretta Lynch ceded the responsibility to him. That wasn’t fair, though she, too, was trying to do the right thing. Both Comey and Lynch had been placed in difficult circumstances due to Bill Clinton’s boneheaded choice to board Lynch’s plane for a casual chat without regard to appearances. (Doesn’t that seem quaint, now?) Remember, Republicans still had credibility then, and they were baying for blood over that Clinton/Lynch meeting on the tarmac of the Phoenix airport. His second fatal error was to assume Hillary Clinton would win the election. Obama made that mistake, too. They underestimated the impact of the Russian interference as much as anyone else did. Sucks. 20/20 hindsight, and all… Anyway, many bad decisions made with the best of intentions all around. And here we are. Can’t say I blame Comey, though. I blame the traitorous Trump types who eagerly accepted whatever “help” was offered, no matter where it came from, how illegal it was or how much damage would be visited upon the country because of it. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7196 "2018-10-13T22:10:39Z")
Aspenglow, I appreciate your response and the good points you made. I still believe that despite Comey’s fears of mutiny among his New York-office underlings, a few extra hours could have been devoted to examination of the Weiner laptop before his public announcement. I find it impossible to explain away the haste as ‘honorable’ or ‘understandable.’ If the NY boys had leaked it before the full examination could occur, then Comey could simply have explained ‘we were taking these few hours to actually look at what was on the laptop’ and that would have been accepted as reasonable by reasonable people. And the mutineers could have been disciplined. Given all this, I don’t think Comey’s decision is defensible. (People of good will can differ, I suppose.) ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2018, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7197 "2018-10-14T23:21:45Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Given all this, I don’t think Comey’s decision is defensible. (People of good will can differ, I suppose.) I wasn’t defending it. As I said, I agree it was a bad decision. I simply wanted to point out that it wasn’t made for partisan reasons. I would not have wanted to be in Comey’s shoes – and still wouldn’t. His life’s work is ruined – admittedly down to his own poor choices. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7198 "2018-10-16T17:59:58Z")
George Papadopolous’s wife admits to lying about her age on her passport, but nothing else, and no, she isn’t really a Russian spy. > **[For wife of sentenced former Trump adviser, a doctored passport photo stokes...](https://abcnews.go.com/US/wife-sentenced-trump-adviser-doctored-passport-photo-stokes/story?id=58519340)** ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7199 "2018-10-16T20:54:32Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Yes, the FBI had this **_concrete, verified, corroborated information_ of ties between the Trump campaign and Russia** , in the October before the 2016 presidential election. > > And the FBI had some emails on a laptop that a few hours of work would have been shown to be _irrelevant_ to the investigation into Hillary Clinton’s use of an email server. > > **So … which one did James Comey feel he HAD to reveal in the days before the election?** > > ((((It may look like a dead horse and smell like a dead horse, but, dammit, it’s still important to ask _how and why_ the system could have worked that way.)))) > > my bolding in the quote Well, Comey is STILL trying to paint himself as some sort of hero. But he’s full of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7200 "2018-10-16T21:00:59Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > George Papadopolous’s wife admits to lying about her age on her passport, but nothing else, and no, she isn’t really a Russian spy. > [For wife of sentenced former Trump adviser, a doctored passport photo stokes new questions - ABC News](https://abcnews.go.com/US/wife-sentenced-trump-adviser-doctored-passport-photo-stokes/story?id=58519340) Apparently [nothing about her backstory](https://medium.com/@ScottMStedman/simona-mangiante-papadopoulos-is-misleading-the-public-about-her-background-8d5f7504230d) actually checks out. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7201 "2018-10-17T00:52:38Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Well, Comey is STILL trying to paint himself as some sort of hero. > But he’s full of shit. Yeah. I haven’t yet seen any convincing argument that it was ‘understandable’ that he had to go public about the Weiner laptop before fully examining it. Especially in light of how much information the FBI had at that time about Trump Campaign connections with Russia–information which was held in complete secrecy. Shit is indeed what he is full of. (If I were ever, by some strange turn of events, to find myself in the same room with Comey, and he started in on that “I could see two doors” crap, I do believe I’d haul off and clock him.) ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7202 "2018-10-17T13:31:09Z")
[\*\*Mueller to present key findings related to Russia probe after midterms: report \*\*](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/411785-mueller-to-present-key-findings-related-to-russia-probe-after) > [@](#): > > Special counsel Robert Mueller is reportedly expected to present findings related to key aspects of his investigation into Russian election interference after this November’s midterm elections. > > Bloomberg News, citing a pair of unidentified U.S. officials, reported on Wednesday that Mueller is close to finalizing his inquiry into a pair of the most important aspects of his investigation. > > One of the officials told the news outlet that the findings are related to whether President Trump’s 2016 campaign colluded with Russia and if Trump obstructed justice during the probe. > > The officials did not provide details on what those findings may include. > > Bloomberg notes, however, that Mueller’s findings on these questions may not be made public, adding that he can he can only present the findings to his boss, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein. > > Rosenstein does have some discretion regarding what findings are issued to Congress and what revelations can be publicly released. > … Okay, folks. I need someone to talk me down from the ledge. I’m starting to think the Mueller investigation is going to end with a great big whimper instead of a bang. Please tell me this whole year’s worth of work won’t turn out to be a nothingburger. ☹ Or, as my first husband used to say, a “nickelburger”-- no meat, no bun, just mustard. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=359) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=361)