# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 366
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7303 "2018-10-31T14:53:43Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > … > But the thing here is that when we think about “Fox News” viewers, we always picture older white guys. But there’s a subset of the current generation of kids who know very little other than the FN view of the world, and Jacob Wohl is exhibit A. > [@enipla](#): > > Interesting observation. I suspect you are probably right. At least about some younger people. > > I have two nephews. age 30 and 32. Their parents are trump supporters and the only thing I have ever seen on TV in their house is FOX news (well, and college football). > > One nephew is a trump supporter, the other hates trump perhaps as much as I do. So one nephew did manage to get some actual news, while the other put blinders on. I want to jump on this bus, too. I posted somewhere a little while back about my 28-year old step-grandson who is WOEFULLY uninformed. He and his wife just moved here from the Deep South where they had been living with her grandmother for a couple of years. I don’t know for a fact that all he was exposed to was FOX, but his thing was, “Why do the liberals want Trump to fail? He’s the PRESIDENT! Why do they want him to fail?” He had no factual knowledge regarding why “liberals” might be opposed to thump. And didn’t care to acquire any. He believed, for example, that ALL of the migrant children have been reunited with their parents. This age group worries me. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7304 "2018-10-31T15:12:42Z")
And that so called “music”! Just a bunch of noise, you ask me! ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7305 "2018-10-31T15:52:31Z")
And the hair! Have you seen what they’re doing to it nowadays? ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7306 "2018-10-31T16:10:56Z")
If I had a lawn, I’d tell him to get off of it. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7307 "2018-10-31T16:56:32Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > The money quote: > > > [@](#): > > > > Wohl stopped responding to NBC News after being told Surefire’s official phone number redirects to his mother’s voicemail. I have a mental image of his mom twisting his ear through a 540-degree angle while yelling into it, “_ **How many times** _ have I told you – don’t get me mixed up in your stupid scam schemes?!?” ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7308 "2018-10-31T17:01:40Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > So this particular October Surprise was intended to win the Republicans some pity votes …??? > > _ **Please, won’t you consider voting Republican? These people have no hope of getting through life without your support–please give them a regular paycheck by sending them to Congress. It’s their only chance!** _ I am reminded of an old _MAD Magazine_ cartoon: “Help The Mentally Handicapped – Re-Elect Your Congressman”. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7309 "2018-10-31T17:14:00Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > Politico has an [interesting story](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/10/31/has-robert-mueller-subpoenaed-trump-222060) that makes the circumstantial case that Mueller has subpoenaed the president, and that that subpoena is being fought over in federal court. What a marvelous (and likely accurate) reading of those tea leaves. It’s astonishing what can be gleaned just by following along with the filings of pleadings, as demonstrated in this piece. Superb catch, **Crotalus** , and thanks for posting the link. So I wonder what happens to this maybe-subpoena if after the mid-terms, Trump fires Sessions and installs [Matthew Whitaker](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/10/12/trumps-potential-new-attorney-general-once-mused-about-choking-off-robert-muellers-funds/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.a1c44718c7af) in his place. I have a feeling all hell is going to break loose on November 7th. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7310 "2018-10-31T17:15:53Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > I have a mental image of his mom twisting his ear through a 540-degree angle while yelling into it, “_ **How many times** _ have I told you – don’t get me mixed up in your stupid scam schemes?!?” She’s used to it, her husband is a scam artist too. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7311 "2018-10-31T17:54:14Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Nah, it’s totally possible to buy a scandal, though I admit it was easier to pull off decades past before literally everything and everyone left a digital paper trail. > > However, thanks to that digital paper trail, you have to be, well, not a _complete_ idiot if you want that scandal to last longer than a soap bubble. What we’re seeing here did not pass muster. The problem is that in the modern age it may not have to. Yes it evaporates in smoke with 5 minute of scrutiny, but only for those who bother to scrutinize or are presented with the debunking. The original accusation will be retweeted 3 times for every time the debunking is retweeted, and even when presented with the obvious fabrication a significant proportion of the population will believe it anyway. Welcome to post truth America. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7312 "2018-10-31T18:16:37Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Wow, that’s some old fashioned reporting based on camping out at the clerk’s office and overhearing shit and putting stuff together. And, then not overselling it by acknowledging that it is simply a strong circumstantial case. > [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > Thanks for posting that. I’m usually guilty of skimming news stories, but that one really sucked me in. Fascinating. I hope that guy’s right. > [@Aspenglow](#): > > What a marvelous (and likely accurate) reading of those tea leaves. It’s astonishing what can be gleaned just by following along with the filings of pleadings, as demonstrated in this piece. > > Superb catch, **Crotalus** , and thanks for posting the link. > > So I wonder what happens to this maybe-subpoena if after the mid-terms, Trump fires Sessions and installs Matthew Whitaker in his place. > > I have a feeling all hell is going to break loose on November 7th. Thanks to all or you’re welcome, whichever works best.🙂 Due to Mueller’s admirable leak-proof silence, I have pretty much stopped reading past the first paragraph of articles purporting to have insight into what might be going on. This one seemed very different from most of what I have read in the past, and that prompted me to share. The president has spent most of time since Mueller was appointed attempting to discredit Mueller and everything he might do. I am apprehensive about what might happen if the president is ordered by the courts to comply with a subpoena. ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7313 "2018-10-31T18:26:59Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > I am apprehensive about what might happen if the president is ordered by the courts to comply with a subpoena. I’m fascinated by the circumstances at this point amounting to an extreme dichotomy. Either it just goes away with alot of liberal whimpers, OR it explodes into the biggest shytstorm to hit the DC halls in decades. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7314 "2018-10-31T18:43:57Z")
Yes, definitely one of those. Or, you know, something else. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7315 "2018-10-31T18:51:05Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > I’m fascinated by the circumstances at this point amounting to an extreme dichotomy. Either it just goes away with alot of liberal whimpers, OR it explodes into the biggest shytstorm to hit the DC halls in decades. You seem to be viewing this as a spectator sport. I’m viewing through the eyes of a concerned citizen. Our system of government has worked, more or less, because of adherence to norms and traditions and laws. I was twenty when Nixon resigned, and as much as I hated him, I felt confident over the two years that led to his resignation that he would ultimately, if reluctantly, comply with court orders, and impeachment and removal if it came to that. We are now dealing with a president who is clearly willing to burn the whole thing down to save his position. We have never been here before. If you’re not worried, I don’t think you understand the situation. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7316 "2018-10-31T19:01:30Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > …We are now dealing with a president who is clearly willing to burn the whole thing down to save his position. We have never been here before. If you’re not worried, I don’t think you understand the situation. There you go again, confusing people with the facts. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7317 "2018-10-31T19:09:14Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > \ > > **The president has spent most of time since Mueller was appointed attempting to discredit Mueller and everything he might do**. I am apprehensive about what might happen if the president is ordered by the courts to comply with a subpoena. The thing is, what you note above is more evidence that might support the story than just what the docket entries indicate. I was dreading the non-stop flogging by Trump & Minions during the 60-day “quiet” period in the run up to the election, figuring they would accelerate their efforts to smear Mueller and his investigation in an endless drumbeat. Instead, they’ve been uncharacteristically quiet. Even Trump, apart from his reflexive regurgitations of, “No collusion!” has been surprisingly silent. Whatever Giuliani is up to, it’s behind the scenes. Sure, there are machinations being perpetrated with brilliant precision \ by surrogates, but that’s different than the direct attacks in which Trump predictably indulges. I wondered why. The subpoena might could be the reason. I’m not as worried about Trump complying with the subpoena if the courts order him to do so (and they will). He always thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room and probably believes he can bluster his way through the testimony. If it happens, it will be a lengthy and painful process. He will likely interrupt the proceedings after every question to go consult with his attorneys outside the presence of the grand jury. But that won’t protect him from going off when he’s alone in the witness chair in front of the jurors. This SCOTUS may limit the scope of the questioning (in my view that would be a mistake but I can see them doing it), but he’ll be on the hot seat for awhile, at least. And his resistance to compliance will only demonstrate further to the public how much he has to hide. That’s why I think Trump’s efforts will be bent toward stopping the investigation before it can get to that point. Mueller will of course have worked out alternative safeguards. I am half expecting a shitload of indictments to be executed at 8:01 p.m. EST on November 6, 2018, simultaneous with Jeff Sessions being fired. Worse, this would be only the beginning of what Trump might do in response. I share your concerns exactly with respect to how far Trump will go to save his own skin. The only consolation I take is that Mueller is much smarter, knows what is at stake, is far more experienced than his opposition and has likely outmaneuvered Trump at every turn. I admit I chuckled when I read the part in the Politico piece about a procedural mistake made by the “witness” that required the Appellate Court to dismiss the appeal, requiring a redux. How typical. Unfortunately, Mueller’s reach extends only to his investigation. For anything outside of that, I fear we must rely on the gutless, craven Republicans in Congress to rein him in, at least until January 3rd. And we know how _that_ goes. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7318 "2018-10-31T19:27:23Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Whatever Giuliani is up to, it’s behind the scenes. I was wondering the same thing this morning. Then I ran across [this](https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-inc-podcast-rudy-giuliani-mystery-trips-to-russia-armenia-and-ukraine). > [@Aspenglow](#): > > I am half expecting a shitload of indictments to be executed at 8:01 p.m. EST on November 6, 2018 Damn, I hope you’re right. Actually, I hope those indictments are executed, oh, maybe, tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7319 "2018-10-31T19:39:54Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > …I’m viewing through the eyes of a concerned citizen… Hey, me too! Don’t know why he put up such a fight, they aren’t that good. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7320 "2018-10-31T19:47:47Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > I was wondering the same thing this morning. Then I ran across [this](https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-inc-podcast-rudy-giuliani-mystery-trips-to-russia-armenia-and-ukraine). That’s a disturbing article, for sure. My stomach turns whenever I see more evidence of Russian manipulation in our government. > [@Railer13](#): > > Damn, I hope you’re right. Actually, I hope those indictments are executed, oh, maybe, tomorrow. Nothing will happen before Tuesday evening, earliest, and that’s probably a pipe dream of mine… though a pleasant one, I’ll admit. If I’d had my way, Mueller would have already scooped up a bunch 6 months ago! But we’re on his schedule now. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7321 "2018-10-31T20:07:52Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I’m beginning to think Republicans really and truly don’t know the difference being lying and truth. I think they _do_, they just don’t care. Which is sadder. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7322 "2018-10-31T20:24:14Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I’m beginning to think Republicans really and truly don’t know the difference being lying and truth. I think that there are two primary segments of the Republican base, the Christians and the pro-business folk, and both of those are faced with the issue that their politics and their other beliefs don’t match up at all. In the case of Christians, Republican policy is basically the opposite of Jesus’ teachings. Jesus would be a Democrat. As such, you’ve got a bunch of people who need to have someone come up with conspiracy theories about how George Soros is paying people to invade the country, so that they don’t have to worry about their Christian duty to be charitable and accepting which conflicts with their personal convictions that non-Americans are evil. In the case of the business minded, their intuition that government is bad and giving people a free lunch goes against basic business sense, but at the same time Republican governments are bad for business due to ignoring basic economic and scientific research. People would rather believe lies than believe that they’ve been boneheaded and/or immoral. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=365) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=367)