# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 369
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7363 "2018-11-03T16:37:07Z")
I’ve been saying for months now, if _I_ were Robert Mueller, I’d have offsite backup of EVERYTHING, and 5 minutes after I was fired, anyone standing outside the loading dock of the New York Times would hear the “beep beep beep” of a box truck with a giant “Read Me” sign painted on it being backed in. I’d probably do the same thing if I found out the report was bottom-drawered. ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7364 "2018-11-03T16:44:03Z")
[CREW Discovers Previously Undisclosed Ethics Waiver for Solicitor General Noel Francisco](https://www.citizensforethics.org/crew-discovers-previously-undisclosed-ethics-waiver-for-solicitor-general-noel-francisco/) > [@](#): > > CREW has uncovered a previously undisclosed ethics waiver that may represent an effort to clear one of the obstacles to Solicitor General Noel Francisco replacing Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein as the official overseeing the Russia investigation. > > If Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein either resigns or is fired, someone else will have to oversee the Special Counsel investigation. Next in line appears to be Solicitor General Noel Francisco. The problem is that Mr. Francisco has ties to the pending investigation that should preclude his participation. > [@](#): > > However, CREW has discovered that the Trump administration issued Mr. Francisco an ethics waiver on April 24, 2018. The waiver relieves him from any obligation to honor his ethics pledge to recuse from investigations involving Jones Day. The waiver states only that he is relieved of this obligation and offers no justification whatsoever. It simply waives the obligation, thereby eliminating one of the three obstacles to his overseeing the Special Counsel investigation. So, they’re definitely taking steps to provide for a route to fire Rod Rosenstein and dismantle the investigation or bottom-drawer the report ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7365 "2018-11-03T17:27:39Z")
> [@Turek](#): > > [CREW Discovers Previously Undisclosed Ethics Waiver for Solicitor General Noel Francisco](https://www.citizensforethics.org/crew-discovers-previously-undisclosed-ethics-waiver-for-solicitor-general-noel-francisco/) > > So, they’re definitely taking steps to provide for a route to fire Rod Rosenstein and dismantle the investigation or bottom-drawer the report I saw this yesterday. It makes my blood boil to see such bald manipulation and disregard for our justice system. I have a hard time believing it will go unnoticed or unaddressed, especially if Dems make gains in Congress. This is Ethics 101, and I don’t understand how Noel Francisco just sacrifices a lifetime reputation for the likes of Donald Trump. I’m not sure it is Rod Rosenstein who will go, although he might, but it will surprise me if Jeff Sessions is still AG on November 7th. Mueller is aware of all this and I am sure has contingency plans in place. For those who are so worried about the 17 million that has been spent on Mueller’s investigation to date, relax. He’s already [paid us back](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/manafort-forfeits-22-million-new-york-real-estate-plea-deal-n909596). As for his report staying out of public view… ssshhhhyyyeeeeaaahhhh, right. One way or another, the results of the Mueller investigation will become known to the public. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7366 "2018-11-03T18:54:27Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > You can pretty much kiss ALL those tax dollars goodbye, regardless of what they are being spent on. The investigation turned a profit, but don’t let that fact get in the way of your talking point here. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7367 "2018-11-03T19:20:07Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > The investigation turned a profit, but don’t let that fact get in the way of your talking point here. I’m pretty sure he was referring to the baseless and countless Benghazi investigations, and not ones that have resulted in indictments and guilty, and as you point out, financial penalties that offset the cost. Actual corruption by actual government officials. Or he’s just dumb as a fucking rock. Not sure which. ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7368 "2018-11-03T19:30:16Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > The investigation turned a profit, but don’t let that fact get in the way of your talking point here. No kiddin’ ! How many lawyers on that team x avg rate + expenses, travel, overtime. Daaaaaaang! :smack: Somehow I can’t tell if the flavor of those words you just put in my mouth are troll or excrement-based. ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7369 "2018-11-03T19:54:11Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > I’m pretty sure … …Or he’s just dumb as a fucking rock. Not sure which. About this, I am sure. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7370 "2018-11-03T20:36:20Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > So. . . a special investigation being conducted by the Dept of Justice of the USA, on behalf of the American public, whose budget is wholly funded by taxpayer dollars, over $17 million of which has been spent on this investigation. . . how is it possible that the public will not get to see the final report? > > mc Did you whine about the Statr report costing 70 million in 90s dollars and went down multiple dead end routes? Did you whine about the 60-100 million Trump will spend putting troops on the border for a non-existent ‘threat’ that is still months away so that he stoke his bases’s fearful hatred? ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7371 "2018-11-03T21:39:28Z")
What’s up your butt? I’m not whining about how much it costs. It’s money well spent, or rather as **Aspenglow** pointed out (which I did not know and am happy to hear) money well invested. I’m “whining” (I would’ve used the term “ranting”) about the possibility of the report not seeing the light of day. I get that there might be parts of the report that may fall under the umbrella of state secrets, and the congress may decide that there is no there there and choose not to act, but the conclusions and the recommendations should be public. Yes, there were documents related to the JFK assassination that took more than 50 yrs to be revealed, but the main body of the Warren Commission Report was released. Same for the Starr report. mc ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7372 "2018-11-05T19:54:48Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > \ Nothing will happen before Tuesday evening, earliest… \ I must revise this statement. If Roger Stone sidles toward an international airport with a one-way ticket in hand before Tuesday night, we’ll see an arrest before the elections are finished. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7373 "2018-11-06T04:51:42Z")
> [@Turek](#): > > I’ve been saying for months now, if _I_ were Robert Mueller, I’d have offsite backup of EVERYTHING, and 5 minutes after I was fired, anyone standing outside the loading dock of the New York Times would hear the “beep beep beep” of a box truck with a giant “Read Me” sign painted on it being backed in. > > I’d probably do the same thing if I found out the report was bottom-drawered. So would I. Damn right I would. And another truck full of copies, just in case. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7374 "2018-11-06T04:56:55Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I saw this yesterday. It makes my blood boil to see such bald manipulation and disregard for our justice system. I have a hard time believing it will go unnoticed or unaddressed, especially if Dems make gains in Congress. This is Ethics 101, and I don’t understand how Noel Francisco just sacrifices a lifetime reputation for the likes of Donald Trump. > > I’m not sure it is Rod Rosenstein who will go, although he might, but it will surprise me if Jeff Sessions is still AG on November 7th. > > Mueller is aware of all this and I am sure has contingency plans in place. > > For those who are so worried about the 17 million that has been spent on Mueller’s investigation to date, relax. He’s already [paid us back](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/manafort-forfeits-22-million-new-york-real-estate-plea-deal-n909596). > > As for his report staying out of public view… ssshhhhyyyeeeeaaahhhh, right. One way or another, the results of the Mueller investigation will become known to the public. Sessions is gone. He blew it with Trump when he recused himself. Trump was furious. He expected Sessions to kill the Russia investigation AND take a fall for doing it. Meuller for sure has a contingency plan - as in sharing all his info with State investigators (where Trump pardons are useless). I’m sure Rosenstein has a plan too. What might fuck it up is if Trump’s toady Kavanaugh gets to “decide” Gamble v. United States (dual sovereignty). If the dual-sovereignty doctrine were tossed, as Orrin Hatch wants (and Trump too), then Trump’s pardon could theoretically protect Manafort from state action. AND protect himself too. It’s Russia and Obstruction all the way down. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7375 "2018-11-06T04:58:05Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Did you whine about the Statr report costing 70 million in 90s dollars and went down multiple dead end routes? > > Did you whine about the 60-100 million Trump will spend putting troops on the border for a non-existent ‘threat’ that is still months away so that he stoke his bases’s fearful hatred? Of course not. None of them did. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7376 "2018-11-06T08:11:17Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Sessions is gone. He blew it with Trump when he recused himself. Trump was furious. He expected Sessions to kill the Russia investigation AND take a fall for doing it. Meuller for sure has a contingency plan - as in sharing all his info with State investigators (where Trump pardons are useless). I’m sure Rosenstein has a plan too. > > What might fuck it up is if Trump’s toady Kavanaugh gets to “decide” Gamble v. United States (dual sovereignty). If the dual-sovereignty doctrine were tossed, as Orrin Hatch wants (and Trump too), then Trump’s pardon could theoretically protect Manafort from state action. AND protect himself too. > > It’s Russia and Obstruction all the way down. Correct me if I’m wrong, but if state prosecutions precede federal prosecutions, any state convictions can’t get pardoned away by the America-hating Fuckstick, regardless of how _Gamble_ is decided, right? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7377 "2018-11-06T10:24:30Z")
What I don’t understand.is why Trump hasn’t pardoned those who’ve made plea deals with Mueller. Surely from Trump’s viewpoint any political fallout would be outweighed by the threat of them testifying or simply providing information against him or his family. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7378 "2018-11-06T12:11:16Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > What I don’t understand.is why Trump hasn’t pardoned those who’ve made plea deals with Mueller. > > Surely from Trump’s viewpoint any political fallout would be outweighed by the threat of them testifying or simply providing information against him or his family. He didn’t want to be blamed for taking action that could impact the midterm results. Once the midterms are behind him, we’re going to see a more aggressive assault on the constitution. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7379 "2018-11-06T13:37:08Z")
Also, if I understand it correctly, if he pardons them and they accept the pardon, they can no longer plead the 5th when called to testify, nor can they refuse to testify. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7380 "2018-11-06T14:52:33Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > Also, if I understand it correctly, if he pardons them and they accept the pardon, they can no longer plead the 5th when called to testify, nor can they refuse to testify. I have a dumb legal question. Why can’t they still refuse to testify? Wouldn’t the consequences of such a refusal also be pardonable? Pardons all the way down? ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7381 "2018-11-06T16:23:33Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > As for his report staying out of public view… ssshhhhyyyeeeeaaahhhh, right. One way or another, the results of the Mueller investigation will become known to the public. I would think that if the Dems take Congress (likely, but still fingers crossed), then if Mueller is fired, they could start their own Congressional investigation and as a first step subpoena all FBI documents related to Muller’s investigation. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7382 "2018-11-06T16:34:14Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I have a dumb legal question. Why can’t they still refuse to testify? Wouldn’t the consequences of such a refusal also be pardonable? Pardons all the way down? The Fifth Amendment protects you from providing testimony that would incriminate yourself. But if you’re pardoned, you are no longer in jeopardy of being incriminated for those crimes. So if you are subpoenaed to testify, you can’t plead the fifth for that reason. If you do, you can be held in contempt of Congress or contempt of court as the case may be. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=368) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=370)