# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2017, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/741 "2017-11-12T12:21:27Z")
I don’t think Mueller is waiting for anything; he’s probably working overtime to try to get to the bigger fish before Trump and the Republican fascist base decide to just shut down the investigation altogether. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2017, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/742 "2017-11-12T12:25:36Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Unless the Christian happen to be a Democrat who is Black and in elected office. There’s no way those Reoublicans will believe that. It doesn’t fit their narrative. Trumpists are highly subjective people who live in almost entirely in the realm of subjectivity. Two people can say and do the exact same thing, but if it’s ‘the other’ who says it, then it’s verboten. What’s frightening is that these are people who could ultimately end up hijacking government and applying the rule of law, applying the force of the courts, applying the force of the military, and otherwise creating new rules to live by. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2017, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/743 "2017-11-12T13:01:33Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > …What’s frightening is that these are people who could ultimately end up hijacking government and applying the rule of law, applying the force of the courts, applying the force of the military, and otherwise creating new rules to live by. Aren’t they already doing it? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2017, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/744 "2017-11-12T13:32:10Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I was thinking that, not because of the political optics, but because of the danger that he would be more likely to try launching WWIII if he got in the mood to throw a tantrum while overseas. He’s likely to forget where he is and call a nuclear strike on his own location. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2017, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/745 "2017-11-12T13:44:02Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > He’s likely to forget where he is and call a nuclear strike on his own location. Or just be pig ignorant about it. Like when he arrived in Israel and declared that he had just left the middle east. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2017, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/746 "2017-11-12T13:53:08Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > He’s likely to forget where he is and call a nuclear strike on his own location. Love it. Does anyone know if Mueller has Trump’s tax returns? Couldn’t he subpoena them? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2017, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/747 "2017-11-12T15:02:49Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Love it. > > Does anyone know if Mueller has Trump’s tax returns? Couldn’t he subpoena them? I think it’s a virtual certainty that his team has been poring over them for months. Yes, he can get them as far as I know. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/748 "2017-11-12T17:56:36Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Love it. > > Does anyone know if Mueller has Trump’s tax returns? Couldn’t he subpoena them? I know people are obsessed with the guy’s tax returns, but he could be guilty of 100 financial crimes and the tax returns would not show it. You can be guiltier than hell and file a legal looking tax return with nary a single lie on it. Donald Trump has been pulling real estate con jobs for 40 years and never once has he been indicted for a crime. He knows how to at least APPEAR above board and stay on the technically correct side of the law. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2017, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/749 "2017-11-12T18:07:27Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Love it. > > Does anyone know if Mueller has Trump’s tax returns? Couldn’t he subpoena them? It’s never been a confirmed fact that Mueller has Trump’s tax returns, but with an idea about how a counterintelligence operation works, I’m convinced that James Comey had those tax returns in hand within weeks of the commencement of his investigation that began in July 2016. They would have been one of the first things the FBI wanted to see. Yes, they can be subpoenaed from the IRS on the basis of good cause. They would have had good cause. It appears Mueller has been the fortunate beneficiary of a lot of work done on the investigation by Comey before he was fired, based on the speed of the Manafort/Pappadopoulos indictments. I’m quite sure the tax returns were among the first fruits of that labor. Not known for a fact, though. ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2017, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/750 "2017-11-12T22:19:28Z")
> [@](#): > > I know people are obsessed with the guy’s tax returns, but he could be guilty of 100 financial crimes and the tax returns would not show it. what if they show he is broke? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2017, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/751 "2017-11-12T22:31:08Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I know people are obsessed with the guy’s tax returns, but he could be guilty of 100 financial crimes and the tax returns would not show it. You can be guiltier than hell and file a legal looking tax return with nary a single lie on it. > > Donald Trump has been pulling real estate con jobs for 40 years and never once has he been indicted for a crime. He knows how to at least APPEAR above board and stay on the technically correct side of the law. But they could also be entirely legal but provide evidence for collusion with Russia, and also be politically embarrassing. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/752 "2017-11-13T22:24:07Z")
New piece in The Atlantic is pretty damning re: Trump Jr and Wikileaks. [The Secret Correspondence Between Donald Trump Jr. and WikiLeaks](https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/545738/) ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/753 "2017-11-13T23:26:13Z")
That’s a pretty one-sided “correspondence.” ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/754 "2017-11-13T23:39:12Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > That’s a pretty one-sided “correspondence.” Except for the parts that weren’t, of course. [http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/360189-trump-tweeted-about-podesta-emails-15-minutes-after-wikileaks-asked](http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/360189-trump-tweeted-about-podesta-emails-15-minutes-after-wikileaks-asked) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/755 "2017-11-13T23:40:15Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > That’s a pretty one-sided “correspondence.” Can you explain? There are messages going both ways. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2017, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/756 "2017-11-14T00:17:39Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Can you explain? There are messages going both ways. The article cites two messages that Trump Jr. responded to. Everything else is Wikileaks sending DMs without reply. Not defending Trump Jr. here, who is a legendary doofus, but _The Atlantic_ seems to be grasping at straws here. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2017, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/757 "2017-11-14T00:23:20Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > The article cites two messages that Trump Jr. responded to. Everything else is Wikileaks sending DMs without reply. > > Not defending Trump Jr. here, who is a legendary doofus, but _The Atlantic_ seems to be grasping at straws here. I didn’t read the article super closely, but this was my reaction too. It looks more like Wikileaks pestering Trump than Trump doing much in return. Now, I hate hate hate Trump, and I believe he and his family of douchebags are likely guilty of all kinds of crap. But I just don’t see this being all that damning. I may be missing the obvious though. ETA: The timing of the tweet does look pretty bad though. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2017, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/758 "2017-11-14T00:24:42Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > The article cites two messages that Trump Jr. responded to. Everything else is Wikileaks sending DMs without reply. > > Not defending Trump Jr. here, who is a legendary doofus, but _The Atlantic_ seems to be grasping at straws here. While there is, possibly, a significant legal difference between say shooting one person and shooting twenty people, it’s still safe to say that the police are going to be happy to make your acquaintance. Working with the enemy once or twice versus working with the enemy liberally and flagrantly might be two different things, but neither is really something we want to have occurring in our election cycles. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2017, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/759 "2017-11-14T00:29:48Z")
But what constitutes “working with the enemy?” All Trump Jr. says in his replies is that he doesn’t know who a certain PAC is and that HRC is totes annoying. In fact, the article does a far better job elucidating Wikileaks’ motives than proving anything about Trump Jr. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2017, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/760 "2017-11-14T00:43:59Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > But what constitutes “working with the enemy?” All Trump Jr. says in his replies is that he doesn’t know who a certain PAC is and that HRC is totes annoying. “Hey thanks, I’ll look into it!” is quite a bit different from “I don’t know who that is.” It, specifically, sounds a lot like working together. And while, yes, that alone might not be sufficient, keeping the line open from a source that is an enemy of the country and generally known to be working in cooperation with Russia (you could always, y’know, block the enemy who seems intent on trying to pour poison in your ear), and actively taking the advice of said enemy on many numerous occasions, that all seems quite sufficient. If the KKK started DMing you here on the SDMB, telling you how to hack into some black man’s website and you wrote back, “Oh hey, I’ll look into that!”, and then continued to quietly act in accordance with the desires of said KKK member, without blocking them…I’d be pretty willing to say that you were working with the KKK. There just ain’t any reason for any of that to be happening, even to that extent. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=37) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=39)