# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 395
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7883 "2018-11-30T05:55:57Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > There was that dwarf in Prague, seeking a place to hide, and asking if anyone would cache a small Czech. YOU! Your room! Now! ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7884 "2018-11-30T06:07:28Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > There was that dwarf in Prague, seeking a place to hide, and asking if anyone would cache a small Czech. I laughed. šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7885 "2018-11-30T06:17:59Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > There was that dwarf in Prague, seeking a place to hide, and asking if anyone would cache a small Czech. Are you sure he wasnā€™t just looking to lay low for a while? ---
**Author:** ![catflea12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f6c823/32.png) [@catflea12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catflea12)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7886 "2018-11-30T13:27:51Z")
Maybe Thump and his merry little band of criminals will do a midnight escape from the WH, just throwing a few things into a suitcase and getting the hell out of dodge. We can only hope. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7887 "2018-11-30T14:02:18Z")
> [@catflea12](#): > > Maybe Thump and his merry little band of criminals will do a midnight escape from the WH, just throwing a few things into a suitcase and getting the hell out of dodge. We can only hope. Well, provided one of the things thrown in the suitcase isnā€™t the ā€œnuclear football.ā€ I recall at least one report a while back that Guiliani was in Russia. Perhaps scouting out nice _dachas_ (certified polonium-free)? Although given the (assumed) state of CFSGā€™s finances, perhaps counting on the hospitality of Putin _et. al._ may not be the best course of action. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7888 "2018-11-30T14:14:35Z")
Lindsey Graham releases a statement that says proof that the Trump campaign had contact with Russian intel officials would be a [game changer](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/contact-trump-campaign-russian-intel-officials-game-changer/story?id=45505386). Unfortunately, he released that statement in 2017 before he was neutered, so it doesnā€™t count anymore. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7889 "2018-11-30T14:51:26Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Whatever happened to Fotheringay-Phipps? > > This question occurred to me while reading about this Felix Sater/Trump Tower Moscow/Putin Penthouse business. I was thinking can anyone still say with a straight face that thereā€™s no evidence of collusion. Then I thought of Barmy. That motherfucker never breaks character. Now I see itā€™s been over two months since he posted. It got to be too much, even for F-P. The only one left claiming Trump is innocent in this is that Chip Dumbass. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7890 "2018-11-30T14:56:29Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > I think [this](https://www.gq.com/story/what-putin-has-on-trump)is a pretty good analysis from _GQ_ of ā€œWhat Putin has on Trumpā€. > > (italics in original. ETA: which youā€™d be sure to see if the Quote box hadnā€™t italicized everything for me ā˜¹ ) > > Iā€™ve gone back and forth on whether the notorious ā€œpee tapeā€ exists, or whether Russia has Trump by the financial balls, or a variety of other explanations. But Ioffeā€™s explanation strikes me as pretty persuasive. If Putin could, at his whim, destroy Trumpā€™s legitimacy, that would be a powerful motivator for Trump to kneel before Zod in Helsinki. The simplest explanations arenā€™t **always** right, but Iā€™m thinking it coul well be in this case. Back in July, I cited this Julia Ioffe piece arguing that the elusive _kompromat_ the Russians have on Trump is the election itself. They helped him win, and they can destroy him at will. Maybe thereā€™s a pee tape; maybe the Russians own him financially, whatever, I donā€™t know. But we know they own him because they did crimes with him, and if anyone goes down for it, it will be Trump and his family, not the Russians. [Representative Adam Schiff:](https://twitter.com/RepAdamSchiff/status/1068297096950886402) > [@](#): > > Last year, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov claimed Cohenā€™s outreach on the Trump Tower Moscow deal received no response. As Cohenā€™s plea demonstrates, they lied. They helped Trump by providing false corroboration. This is a counterintelligence nightmare. [Former CIA Clandestine Service Officer John Sipher, responding to Schiff:](https://twitter.com/john_sipher/status/1068297626649538560) > [@](#): > > Right you are. A Case Officerā€™s dream. A target that needs you to help him break the law. [Lawfare executive editor Susan Hennessey, responding to Schiff](https://twitter.com/Susan_Hennessey/status/1068509025157955585): > [@](#): > > I donā€™t think this point can be overstated. The Kremlin is in a position to seal Trumpā€™s fate. They know it. He knows it. Oh, and Russia and Ukraine are about to go to war. I guess Putin sees that the gig is up so he has to cash in now if he wants to get his hands on Ukraine while his puppet is still in the White House. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7891 "2018-11-30T15:01:07Z")
Remember, this is Manafort Detailed Memo Day! ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7892 "2018-11-30T15:18:13Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > [Hereā€™s another good article](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/11/three-remarkable-things-about-michael-cohens-plea/577015/), this one from former Federal Prosecutor Ken White. White says the plea itself isnā€™t that significant to Cohen, but itā€™s a Big Fucking Deal because it ā€œlays a markerā€ > (my bold) > > White goes on to argue that Mueller is making his results public in court filings. Mueller has to deliver his final report to the AG, who gets to decide whether or not to make it public. Whitaker is likely to hold on to the report, but Muellerā€™s court filings donā€™t go through Whitaker. Mueller is ā€œmaking his reportā€ in stages. In todayā€™s court hearing to schedule Manafortā€™s sentencing ([via BuzzFeed reporter Zoe Tillman on Twitter](https://twitter.com/ZoeTillman/status/1068514952439349248)): > [@](#): > > Special counsel prosecutor Andrew Weissmann explains what obligations the govt contends it is relieved of since Manafort breached his deal, incl. no longer agreeing to a reduction for accepting responsibility and fully laying out _all_ of Manafortā€™s conduct before/after the deal Team Mueller continues to make its report in court documents. By the way, Iā€™m working on a research project looking into the 2016 hacking operations. Iā€™m a professor of information security, and Iā€™m looking at it from a purely technical perspective. The Mueller indictments include a ton of technical detail on how the hacks actually were carried out. Iā€™m not a lawyer, but that struck me as odd. I would have guessed the documents would be full of legal minutiae. While there is plenty of legal stuff in them, they devote a lot of space to telling a story about what happened, in clear terms. Itā€™s a cracking good read. I canā€™t wait for the next installment! ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7893 "2018-11-30T15:19:32Z")
> [@Fair\_Rarity](#): > > I read/heard so much crap yesterday about how the tanking Manafort situation was bad for Mueller, blah blah blah. All I could think was ā€œDo you really think Mueller didnā€™t know Manafort was singing like a canary? Do you really think he didnā€™t have a plan for it? And a back up plan? And a back up to the back up?ā€ > > Iā€™m sure he has bad days. Iā€™m sure a few things in this bizarre situation have taken him by surprise. > > But Iā€™m also quite sure this motley crew of two bit intellects and cheesy con men are vastly out matched and out maneuvered on every level every day. > > I too remain in awe of him, even if it isnā€™t a fair fight. > > And he also needs a round of applause for keeping his cool. Not going on talk shows. Not leaking. Not being a general douchebag like Starr was. Low profile and professional is such a low bar that hasnā€™t been met by anyone but him in two years. Your observation on how inept team Trump is on everything that they do finally clicked to me: Theyā€™re bad guys in a Dave Barry book. Mixed in with horrible taste in all things. Like if Mr Magoo and Inspector Cleuseau had an orgy on bath salts and Tide pods. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7894 "2018-11-30T15:27:40Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > By the way, Iā€™m working on a research project looking into the 2016 hacking operations. Iā€™m a professor of information security, and Iā€™m looking at it from a purely technical perspective. The Mueller indictments include a ton of technical detail on how the hacks actually were carried out. Iā€™m not a lawyer, but that struck me as odd. I would have guessed the documents would be full of legal minutiae. While there is plenty of legal stuff in them, they devote a lot of space to telling a story about what happened, in clear terms. Itā€™s a cracking good read. I canā€™t wait for the next installment! Do you have a link you can share to what you are reading (sorry if I have missed it above)? Iā€™ve tried searching but there is a lot of news about Mueller and indictmentsā€¦ Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7895 "2018-11-30T15:28:09Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Remember, this is Manafort Detailed Memo Day! Darnā€¦ put off to December 7th. ā˜¹ ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7896 "2018-11-30T15:34:00Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Darnā€¦ put off to December 7th. ā˜¹ A day that will live in infamyā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7897 "2018-11-30T15:36:03Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > In todayā€™s court hearing to schedule Manafortā€™s sentencing ([via BuzzFeed reporter Zoe Tillman on Twitter](https://twitter.com/ZoeTillman/status/1068514952439349248)): > > Team Mueller continues to make its report in court documents. > > By the way, Iā€™m working on a research project looking into the 2016 hacking operations. Iā€™m a professor of information security, and Iā€™m looking at it from a purely technical perspective. The Mueller indictments include a ton of technical detail on how the hacks actually were carried out. Iā€™m not a lawyer, but that struck me as odd. I would have guessed the documents would be full of legal minutiae. While there is plenty of legal stuff in them, they devote a lot of space to telling a story about what happened, in clear terms. Itā€™s a cracking good read. I canā€™t wait for the next installment! Thatā€™s kind of what people have realized over the past fewā€¦ the ā€œreportā€ is in the indictments. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7898 "2018-11-30T15:42:39Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > Do you have a link you can share to what you are reading (sorry if I have missed it above)? Iā€™ve tried searching but there is a lot of news about Mueller and indictmentsā€¦ > > Thanks. Sure. I donā€™t think I posted them before. All the indictments are available on the DOJ site. But here are the three main ones that lay out a lot of detail. At points in the indictments, they describe what the Russians were searching the internet for. Like, after Crowdstrike started helping the DNC and DCCC, the Russians started looking online for what Crowdstrike had published previously about the hack tools the Russians were using. So somehow Mueller got his hands on records showing what the Russians were Googling (or, more likely, Yandexing). Thatā€™s a neat trick. [https://www.justice.gov/file/1035477/download](https://www.justice.gov/file/1035477/download) [https://www.justice.gov/file/1080281/download](https://www.justice.gov/file/1080281/download) [https://www.justice.gov/file/1098481/download](https://www.justice.gov/file/1098481/download) ETA: Iā€™ve also been reading a ton of other stuff. But for that youā€™ll have to buy my book. Hopefully next year. šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7899 "2018-11-30T15:53:26Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > How can anyone stay in a job when their boss publically states that he belongs in jail? > > I just donā€™t get that. What I donā€™t understand is why anybody would work for Donny Two-scoops in the first place. He demands total fealty ā€“ to the point of compromising any principles you might have ā€“ and offers nothing in return. Hell, youā€™ll be the first he throws under the bus at the first sign of trouble. The money (or prestige if itā€™s a government post) canā€™t be _that_ good. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7900 "2018-11-30T15:59:50Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Darnā€¦ put off to December 7th. ā˜¹ ? Something in the news? I was hoping for today (my birthday is Saturday). Anyway, things are unraveling at a rate fast enough for me to have a good day. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7901 "2018-11-30T16:08:11Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > ? Something in the news? > > I was hoping for today (my birthday is Saturday). > > Anyway, things are unraveling at a rate fast enough for me to have a good day. The memo detailing the latest facts of Manaforts broken plea deal was to be filed today, but the govā€™t asked for (with the defense having no objection) the right to file it on Dec 7th, which was granted. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/7902 "2018-11-30T16:31:06Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > Sure. I donā€™t think I posted them before. All the indictments are available on the DOJ site. But here are the three main ones that lay out a lot of detail. At points in the indictments, they describe what the Russians were searching the internet for. Like, after Crowdstrike started helping the DNC and DCCC, the Russians started looking online for what Crowdstrike had published previously about the hack tools the Russians were using. So somehow Mueller got his hands on records showing what the Russians were Googling (or, more likely, Yandexing). Thatā€™s a neat trick. > > [https://www.justice.gov/file/1035477/download](https://www.justice.gov/file/1035477/download) > [https://www.justice.gov/file/1080281/download](https://www.justice.gov/file/1080281/download) > [https://www.justice.gov/file/1098481/download](https://www.justice.gov/file/1098481/download) > > ETA: Iā€™ve also been reading a ton of other stuff. But for that youā€™ll have to buy my book. Hopefully next year. šŸ™‚ Iā€™m a Cybersecurity consultant. Iā€™d be interested in such a book. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=394) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=396)