# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 412
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8223 "2018-12-12T17:11:07Z")
Cohen gets three years in prison. [Michael Cohen Sentenced To Three Years In Prison](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/amberjamieson/michael-cohen-sentenced-mueller-trump-tower-russia-stormy) ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8224 "2018-12-12T17:19:00Z")
He seems to at least have some self-awareness of [how he got into this mess](https://www.thedailybeast.com/michael-cohen-sentenced-to-3-years-says-he-covered-up-trumps-dirty-deeds) (unless it’s all a cynical sympathy ploy): > [@](#): > > “Recently the president tweeted a statement calling me weak and he was correct,” [Cohen] added, choking up at times. “Time and time again I felt it was my duty to cover up his dirty deeds rather than listen to my voice.” ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8225 "2018-12-12T17:27:19Z")
Prisoner’s dilemma played perfectly: Flynn, flipped early, no sentence. Cohen, flipped in the middle, 3 years. Manafort, never flipped, will die in prison. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8226 "2018-12-12T17:33:54Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I mean, he really BELIEVES this crap he urps out about himself. :smack: I’ve reached the conclusion that saying whether Trump does or doesn’t believe a statement he makes is actually a meaningless concept. When most of us say something we view it as an attempt to convey information. If we are conveying information that we believe conforms with reality we are being 'Truthful" and if we convey information that we don’t believe conforms with reality we are lying. Trump, it seems to me, views statements more in terms to the effect they will have. There are “good” statements that reflect well on him and there are “bad” statements that reflect poorly on him. To his mind it doesn’t make any more sense to talk about a statement being true or false than it does to talk about the Truth of Falsity of putting an X in the center square in Tic-Tac-Toe. When he says such and so bad thing about him is a lie, all he’s really doing is making a move to block a “bad” statement. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8227 "2018-12-12T17:40:50Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > I’ve reached the conclusion that saying whether Trump does or doesn’t believe a statement he makes is actually a meaningless concept. > > When most of us say something we view it as an attempt to convey information. If we are conveying information that we believe conforms with reality we are being 'Truthful" and if we convey information that we don’t believe conforms with reality we are lying. > > Trump, it seems to me, views statements more in terms to the effect they will have. There are “good” statements that reflect well on him and there are “bad” statements that reflect poorly on him. To his mind it doesn’t make any more sense to talk about a statement being true or false than it does to talk about the Truth of Falsity of putting an X in the center square in Tic-Tac-Toe. When he says such and so bad thing about him is a lie, all he’s really doing is making a move to block a “bad” statement. Interesting perspective. I like it. I may use this point if discussions about “Individual 1” arise over Xmas. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8228 "2018-12-12T17:42:53Z")
[Cohen gets 3 years](https://www.apnews.com/d6dbb8b02a4446f6800de794b45523e6) is all. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8229 "2018-12-12T17:53:20Z")
Michael Cohen, in happier, crime-ier, times: “@HillaryClinton when you go to prison for defrauding America and perjury, your room and board will be free!” Today: $500,000 forfeiture, $50,000 fine, $1.4 million in restitution. Sorry, Michael, you were incorrect on, oh, so many levels. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8230 "2018-12-12T17:55:25Z")
The time may seem short, but I’m pleased with two things: 1) Convicted. 2) Prison. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8231 "2018-12-12T18:05:14Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > His people are already revolting. > > Hey, somebody had to say it. [Mel Brooks voice] “Yeah, they stink on ice!” 😛 ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8232 "2018-12-12T18:05:55Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > I’ve reached the conclusion that saying whether Trump does or doesn’t believe a statement he makes is actually a meaningless concept. > > When most of us say something we view it as an attempt to convey information. If we are conveying information that we believe conforms with reality we are being 'Truthful" and if we convey information that we don’t believe conforms with reality we are lying. > > Trump, it seems to me, views statements more in terms to the effect they will have. There’s a good [technical term](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Bullshit) for characterizing the kind of statements Trump makes… ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8233 "2018-12-12T18:08:30Z")
It’s a good start. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8234 "2018-12-12T18:35:07Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > There’s a good [technical term](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Bullshit) for characterizing the kind of statements Trump makes… Huh, I didn’t realize that the idea I made up on the spur of the moment was already an established theory that predated Trump. On the one hand its nice to know that some people actually think my idea is credible :), on the other had it provides yet more proof that any smart thought I have someone has already thought of. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8235 "2018-12-12T18:48:06Z")
NBC News is reporting: > [@](#): > > The National Enquirer’s parent company has admitted to prosecutors that **it made the $150,000 payment in “concert with” the Trump campaign** “in order to ensure that the woman did not publicize damaging allegations about the candidate before the 2016 presidential election.” > (Emphasis mine, JT) ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8236 "2018-12-12T18:51:35Z")
The SDNY reached a non-prosecution agreement with AMI (the publisher of _The National Enquirer_), in which AMI admits to paying one of Trump’s sexual partners (MacDougal I think) $150,000 for her story with the intent of keeping it quiet. AMI got off without prosecution for, among other reasons, providing “substantial and important assistance” to the SDNY’s investigation. > IANAL, but this would seem to be a decent size campaign finance issue, that AMI gets off the hook for, presumably because they rolled on someone higher up the corruption chain. Now, who might that be? Hmmm. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8237 "2018-12-12T18:54:56Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > …in which AMI admits to paying one of Trump’s sexual partners (MacDougal I think) $150,000 for her story with the intent of keeping it quiet. You know, a simple, private transaction. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8238 "2018-12-12T18:58:19Z")
Headline: National Enquirer Folds! Eh. It might need some work. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8239 "2018-12-12T18:58:21Z")
Love love love it! ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8240 "2018-12-12T18:59:38Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > You know, a simple, private transaction. Move along. Nothingburger to see here. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8241 "2018-12-12T19:09:53Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > Headline: National Enquirer Folds! > > Eh. It might need some work. Ah, how about: “Prosecutors Roll Up National Enquirer”? And, I think I’m stealing this from someone here, but: “Pecker Won’t Stand Up for Trump”. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8242 "2018-12-12T20:21:35Z")
Close: > [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Trump Can No Longer Count On Pecker Standing Up For Him [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=411) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=413)