# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 418
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8343 "2018-12-16T00:45:30Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > The endless attempts to obfuscate and conceal the activity don’t argue very much in favor of the “Oh, my goodness, I had no idea this was a crime!” defense, either. Except that he might have known. Just like there is always a Tweet, there is always a video… > [@](#): > > Old interview footage has emerged that strongly suggests Donald Trump knew that hush money payouts are illegal. The interview comes from an April 27, 2012 Fox News show hosted by Greta Van Susteren, in which the two spoke about a similar case surrounding former Democratic Presidential candidate John Edwards. 2012 video [here](https://www.mediaite.com/online/case-undermined-2012-video-emerges-showing-trumps-understanding-of-john-edwards-case/). ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8344 "2018-12-16T18:59:46Z")
[Giuliani](https://twitter.com/ABCPolitics/status/1074309788983451648): “I know collusion’s not a crime, right? It was over with by the time of the election.” Didn’t see that goalpost move coming. Admit to the collusion to win the election, but since that collusion ended at the election, we are all good. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8345 "2018-12-16T19:37:09Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > [Giuliani](https://twitter.com/ABCPolitics/status/1074309788983451648): “I know collusion’s not a crime, right? It was over with by the time of the election.” > > Didn’t see that goalpost move coming. Admit to the collusion to win the election, but since that collusion ended at the election, we are all good. The “Collusion is not a crime” people are so tedious. Can we all please just accept that when people speak of “collusion” they’re using an imprecise shorthand to refer to a constellation of potential criminal violations, and get on with discussing substantive issues? Can we possibly deal with a little sloppiness of language rather than running for our dictionaries over this stupid fucking word? Fucking lawyers. A non-lawyer uses a legal term, and the lawyers are all like, “Well, then, what’s your opinion of the dissenting opinion in Dingle vs. Berry, then, huh? Huh?” And when a non-lawyer uses a generic term to refer to a set of bad acts, the lawyers all go, “Ha! That’s not a crime! That word appears nowhere in the statute, loooo-ser!” One might be tempted to think these people are not interested in good faith debate. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8346 "2018-12-16T20:06:28Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > … won’t happen. A deal will be made in exchange for his resignation; he won’t serve time. > > Of course the deal should include restitution for all he’s grifted, including whatever the Trumps have sold off of White House antiques and various national treasures. But all that money will probably have gone down one rabbit hole or another. That would be totally unacceptable to me. NO DEAL. Besides, he would just ignore any “agreement” or “settlement” to pay anything to anybody. The bastard should spend his last days at hard labor in Leavenworth. Or just hang the fucker for treason and be done with it. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8347 "2018-12-16T20:08:45Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > The bastard should spend his last days at hard labor in Leavenworth. We don’t want the fuckhead in Kansas. Guantanamo Bay would be okay. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8348 "2018-12-16T20:09:10Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Nor should “I didn’t understand, or listen to the campaign finance violation instructions”. Which is probably closer to the truth in Trumps case. > > He’s been a crook all his life. It’s all he knows. He thought being King would make him immune to all those pesky laws. No need to pay attention to them. This. And SO FAR, he’s been right. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8349 "2018-12-16T20:10:12Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > We don’t want the fuckhead in Kansas. > > Guantanamo Bay would be okay. Since he seems to like Russia so much, how about Siberia? let the bastard starve while he freezes. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8350 "2018-12-16T20:11:18Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > You gotta appreciate the chutzpah of the man who came to fame as America’s mayor who prosecuted minor crimes for broken windows and illegal squeegee men stating that these crimes are[too small to worry about](https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-jared-kushner-replaced-michael-cohen-as-trumps-national-enquirer-connection?ref=home):\* > > “Nobody got killed, nobody got robbed… This was not a big crime,” Giuliani told The Daily Beast on Wednesday. He added, sardonically, “I think in two weeks they’ll start with parking tickets that haven’t been paid.”\* I hope they find something and lock his ass up too. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8351 "2018-12-16T20:12:59Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > The “Collusion is not a crime” people are so tedious. Can we all please just accept that when people speak of “collusion” they’re using an imprecise shorthand to refer to a constellation of potential criminal violations, and get on with discussing substantive issues? Can we possibly deal with a little sloppiness of language rather than running for our dictionaries over this stupid fucking word? > > Fucking lawyers. A non-lawyer uses a legal term, and the lawyers are all like, “Well, then, what’s your opinion of the dissenting opinion in Dingle vs. Berry, then, huh? Huh?” And when a non-lawyer uses a generic term to refer to a set of bad acts, the lawyers all go, “Ha! That’s not a crime! That word appears nowhere in the statute, loooo-ser!” One might be tempted to think these people are not interested in good faith debate. I get so sick of that shit. The word is CONSPIRACY. Conspiracy to commit election fraud, conspiracy to commit treason, conspiracy to do lots of BAD SHIT. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8352 "2018-12-16T20:57:50Z")
[Rudy helps some more](https://us.cnn.com/2018/12/16/politics/rudy-giuliani-trump-tower/index.html). ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8353 "2018-12-16T21:34:12Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I get so sick of that shit. The word is CONSPIRACY. Conspiracy to commit election fraud, conspiracy to commit treason, conspiracy to do lots of BAD SHIT. You are part of the problem **SteveG1**. Sometimes, during discussion of Trump/Russia matters, I’m looking for a word that means, “secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy, especially in order to cheat or deceive others.” We have an English word that means exactly that and that word is, “Collusion.” It is not wrong for me to use, “Collusion,” when that’s precisely what I mean. ---
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8354 "2018-12-16T22:01:47Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > You are part of the problem **SteveG1**. > > Sometimes, during discussion of Trump/Russia matters, I’m looking for a word that means, “secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy, especially in order to cheat or deceive others.” We have an English word that means exactly that and that word is, “Collusion.” It is not wrong for me to use, “Collusion,” when that’s precisely what I mean. I got tired of saying “Possible criminal actions on behalf of Trump or the Trump campaign to influence the election in coordination with foreign agents,” So I just say “Criminal Collusion”. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8355 "2018-12-16T22:12:48Z")
I can’t decide if Giuliani is arranging the deck chairs or denying that the arrangement of deck chairs occurred. At any rate, arranging deck chairs is not a crime. That’s why lawyers prepare various ways to lie. ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8356 "2018-12-17T00:06:01Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > [Giuliani](https://twitter.com/ABCPolitics/status/1074309788983451648): “I know collusion’s not a crime, right? It was over with by the time of the election.” > > Didn’t see that goalpost move coming. Admit to the collusion to win the election, but since that collusion ended at the election, we are all good. Rudy was a manic mess with Chris Wallace on Fox today. The whole time I was thinking that a good lawyer, if he believed his client was innocent, would calmly state his points and not start yelling and waving his arms and contradicting himself every other sentence in a stream-of-consciousness reptilian brain dump. It was fascinating to think that _anyone_ believes that Rudy is helping here. Even Chris was laughing that he couldn’t get a single coherent answer out of him. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8357 "2018-12-17T00:12:43Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > Fucking lawyers. A non-lawyer uses a legal term, and the lawyers are all like, “Well, then, what’s your opinion of the dissenting opinion in Dingle vs. Berry, then, huh? Huh?” And when a non-lawyer uses a generic term to refer to a set of bad acts, the lawyers all go, “Ha! That’s not a crime! That word appears nowhere in the statute, loooo-ser!” One might be tempted to think these people are not interested in good faith debate. But if you take all of that away then **Bricker** would never get to post in Great Debates again… ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8358 "2018-12-17T02:10:39Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > I got tired of saying “Possible criminal actions on behalf of Trump or the Trump campaign to influence the election in coordination with foreign agents,” So I just say “Criminal Collusion”. Lance Turbo… I forgot all about that asshole. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8359 "2018-12-17T02:14:41Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Paul Manafort advised White House on how to attack and discredit investigation of President Trump. > > Hmmm… So how’s that working out for him? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8360 "2018-12-17T02:20:00Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > [Giuliani](https://twitter.com/ABCPolitics/status/1074309788983451648): “I know collusion’s not a crime, right? It was over with by the time of the election.” > > Didn’t see that goalpost move coming. Admit to the collusion to win the election, but since that collusion ended at the election, we are all good. He is so fucking stupid. I hope Meuller and the FBI are looking real closely at him too. And remember, this was the “law and order mayor” who supported warrantless arbitrary searches and wanted to jail everyone over petty bullshit (some bullshit “broken windows” crap). ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8361 "2018-12-17T02:49:28Z")
> [@aurora\_maire](#): > > Rudy was a manic mess with Chris Wallace on Fox today. The whole time I was thinking that a good lawyer, if he believed his client was innocent, would calmly state his points and not start yelling and waving his arms and contradicting himself every other sentence in a stream-of-consciousness reptilian brain dump. It was fascinating to think that _anyone_ believes that Rudy is helping here. Even Chris was laughing that he couldn’t get a single coherent answer out of him. Giuliani is to lawyering what Trump is to humaning. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8362 "2018-12-17T03:00:47Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > So how’s that working out for him? 😃 I can’t even find the post where **JohnT** originally posted that, but I hadn’t seen that link until just now. Damn. It’s a road map of exactly everything Trump and his surrogates have been doing over the past year in their efforts to invalidate and discredit Mueller, his investigation, his team, the FISA warrant process… everything. Every time I think my shock meter has been worn out and no longer functions, I find this corrupt-to-the-bone cabal does it again. If there is justice, there must surely be more charges to arise out of this orchestrated criminal effort. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=417) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=419)