# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 421
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8403 "2018-12-18T17:03:14Z")
Live-Tweeting the Flynn sentencing: > “Judge Sullivan to Michael Flynn: “Arguably, you sold your country out.”" ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8404 "2018-12-18T17:08:08Z")
Holy hell, it looks like the Judge is goading Mueller’s team into admitting Flynn committed treason. Yes, “Treason”. As asked by the judge. To be honest, it seems that the Judge is going to ignore the sentencing guidelines and put Flynn in the pokey. Recess until 12:30 (local (EDT), I assume) ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8405 "2018-12-18T17:12:17Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Live-Tweeting the Flynn sentencing: > > [https://twitter.com/ryanjreilly/status/1075061464325611520](https://twitter.com/ryanjreilly/status/1075061464325611520) > > “Judge Sullivan to Michael Flynn: “Arguably, you sold your country out.”" Yep. The judge seems pissed. Reading about his treatment of the [DOJ prosecutors](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Stevens#Government_concealment_of_evidence) in the Bush era ethics trial of Ted Stevens, I would not want to be Flynn or his lawyers… ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8406 "2018-12-18T17:12:40Z")
MSNBC is covering the sentencing hearing blow-by-blow, and what is clear is that Judge Sullivan is _pissed_. Sullivan has made it clear he does not intend to follow the recommendation of the prosecutors and will impose a jail term if sentencing goes forward today. Actually asked if Mueller’s team ever considered charging Flynn with treason. My goodness. :dubious: Pete Williams just characterized Judge Sullivan as a rattlesnake whose rattle is shaking. I think that’s a good way to put it. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8407 "2018-12-18T17:12:52Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Live-Tweeting the Flynn sentencing: > > [https://twitter.com/ryanjreilly/status/1075061464325611520](https://twitter.com/ryanjreilly/status/1075061464325611520) > > “Judge Sullivan to Michael Flynn: “Arguably, you sold your country out.”" and later: > [@](#): > > Judge Sullivan: “I’m not hiding my disgust, my distain for this criminal offense.” Ow, that’s gonna leave a mark. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8408 "2018-12-18T17:15:32Z")
Is Flynn still chanting “Lock her up”? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8409 "2018-12-18T17:17:53Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Live-Tweeting the Flynn sentencing: > > [https://twitter.com/ryanjreilly/status/1075061464325611520](https://twitter.com/ryanjreilly/status/1075061464325611520) > > “Judge Sullivan to Michael Flynn: “Arguably, you sold your country out.”" Huh: "Judge Sullivan even asked the government whether Flynn could have been charged with treason for interfering in Russian sanctions imposed by Obama administration. " I had a thread about Flynn asking whether he’d committed treason, and a certain lawyer (hint: \*\*Bricker \*\*) pushed into the thread claiming there was no way, based on a simple reading of the law, that Flynn could possibly have been guilty of treason. Now here’s a judge implying that Flynn indeed could have committed treason. Starting to think I gave that lawyer too much credence. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8410 "2018-12-18T17:30:15Z")
“I gotta ask the supporters of all that: How’s that ‘Lock-y her uppy?’ thing working out for ya?” ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8411 "2018-12-18T17:32:00Z")
Meanwhile…[bye-bye, Trump Foundation](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-foundation-closes-down-charity-new-york-attorney-corruption-lawsuit-allegations-a8689276.html): > [@](#): > > Donald Trump’s embattled charity will be shut down and all its money distributed to charities approved by the New York attorney general’s office after an agreement was made amid corruption claims levied against the president’s personal foundation. > > A statement issued by New York Attorney General Barbara Underwood said the Trump Foundation had signed a “stipulation agreeing to dissolve under judicial supervision” after a judge ruled in favour of Ms Underwood’s office as a part of an ongoing lawsuit alleging the charity was used by Mr Trump and his three adult children for personal and political gain. I goggled at this: > [@](#): > > Investigations into the charity uncovered frequent use of the foundation — which was set up as an independent entity — by Mr Trump for the benefit of his family. Among those benefits included a $264,231 gift to the Central Park Conservancy in 1989 that went to refurbish a fountain just outside of the Trump Plaza Hotel, **and a $7 payment to the Boy Scouts of America that would amount the the enrolment fee to join the group when his son Eric was 11-years-old.** (bolding mine) Seven fucking dollars. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8412 "2018-12-18T17:44:07Z")
The guy who said the Clinton Foundation is the “most corrupt enterprise in history” got his own foundation shut down today due to massive corruption. The guy who led the chants of “Lock her up!” at the RNC is getting locked up today. Karma is wonderful. Unless you’re Traitor Flynn or Con Man Trump, then it’s a bitch. But I’m smiling from ear to ear today. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8413 "2018-12-18T17:49:16Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Seven fucking dollars. This is the man who once [cashed a check for thirteen cents](https://splinternews.com/lets-remember-the-time-donald-trump-cashed-a-13-check-1793849388) (Note: this was back in the stone-knives-and-bearskins days when somebody actually had to go to a bank to cash a check). Then again, given the organization’s utter lack of success at instilling Boy Scout values in the little punk, perhaps Daddy Trump should have demanded a refund. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8414 "2018-12-18T17:53:28Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > The guy who said the Clinton Foundation is the “most corrupt enterprise in history” got his own foundation shut down today due to massive corruption. > > The guy who led the chants of “Lock her up!” at the RNC is getting locked up today. Stealing this. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8415 "2018-12-18T17:53:52Z")
Oops, no sentencing today? Flynn’ lawyers asking to delay. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8416 "2018-12-18T17:57:14Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Then again, given the organization’s utter lack of success at instilling Boy Scout values in the little punk, perhaps Daddy Trump should have demanded a refund. Except Daddy Trump was too cheap to pay it, and had his charity pay the bill. Only the Foundation can get a refund, and they’re out of business now. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8417 "2018-12-18T17:57:18Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > Oops, no sentencing today? Flynn’ lawyers asking to delay. Hmmm… Something tells me that’s probably not a good idea when you’re already dealing with a pissed off judge. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8418 "2018-12-18T17:59:52Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Hmmm… Something tells me that’s probably not a good idea when you’re already dealing with a pissed off judge. The second season of “Treason or not?” - returning in March. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8419 "2018-12-18T18:00:01Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Huh: "Judge Sullivan even asked the government whether Flynn could have been charged with treason for interfering in Russian sanctions imposed by Obama administration. " > > I had a thread about Flynn asking whether he’d committed treason, and a certain lawyer (hint: \*\*Bricker \*\*) pushed into the thread claiming there was no way, based on a simple reading of the law, that Flynn could possibly have been guilty of treason. > > Now here’s a judge implying that Flynn indeed could have committed treason. > > Starting to think I gave that lawyer too much credence. Oh and now the judge is walking it back, the asshole: “Judge Sullivan is now trying to walk back some of his rhetoric before the break. Says he was just asking about treason, not saying that Flynn committed it. “Don’t read too much into the questions I asked.” Sullivan says he couldn’t even tell you what the elements of treason are.” ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8420 "2018-12-18T18:03:41Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Hmmm… Something tells me that’s probably not a good idea when you’re already dealing with a pissed off judge. actually, giving the judge some time to cool off might help > [@](#): > > Judge Emmet Sullivan says it is fine to delay Flynn’s sentencing and proceed by having both sides update the judge on his case in March. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8421 "2018-12-18T18:03:48Z")
The judge has now apologized for suggesting that treason was committed. I guess that makes it all okay then. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8422 "2018-12-18T18:04:29Z")
Delayed by 90 days. I think Flynn heard it loud and clear when the judge suggested he go back to prosecutors & earn more cooperation points. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=420) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=422)