# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 426
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8503 "2018-12-20T06:01:51Z")
N/M, wrong thread. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8504 "2018-12-20T06:06:25Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > He’s gonna have to build an addition to his house. At least then he’ll be able to hike up the rent he charges for it while he’s unable to live there because of being in jail. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8505 "2018-12-20T06:07:12Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > [From The Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mueller-seeks-roger-stones-testimony-to-house-intelligence-panel-suggesting-special-counsel-is-near-end-of-probe-of-trump-adviser/2018/12/19/ac5c3ee6-0226-11e9-b5df-5d3874f1ac36_story.html?utm_term=.f2b595d274c2): > [@The Washington Post](#): > > A spokesman for Mueller declined to comment. If you’re a reporter you might as well just have a macro set up on your word processor of choice to spit out that sentence. Also, being Robert Mueller’s “spokesman” must, in some ways, be an incredibly cushy job. I’m reminded of those old commercials with the “Maytag repairman”. (Although I’m sure the job does require a certain degree of self-discipline in a notoriously chatty town.) Also also: I hope all of the scum from this administration (including Individual-1 himself) are all quaking in their expensive leather shoes. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8506 "2018-12-20T06:21:31Z")
I don’t much like the personality type, the jut-jawed iron ass. Kind of man you would want leading a combat mission (if you can’t have nobody going on a combat mission ever again). But in this circumstance, things being what they are, he is totally the man for the job. The Muellerstone grinds slow, but grinds exceeding fine. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8507 "2018-12-20T08:20:02Z")
So Ken White (of Popehat fame) is always a real treat to read, but yesterday’s article in The Atlantic is just… _so_ awesome. > **[Note to Michael Flynn: Federal Court Is Not Twitter](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/12/how-michael-flynns-lawyers-messed/578503/)** > > A muscular public-relations strategy is often a terrible litigation strategy. “Note to Michael Flynn: Federal Court Is Not Twitter” > [@](#): > > Flynn and his lawyers faced the same problem that has bedeviled Trump and Michael Cohen and Michael Avenatti and Paul Manafort and several other figures in this circus we call life after 2016: A muscular public-relations strategy is often a terrible litigation strategy. Time and again, these players have heard their public statements quoted back at them in court to undermine their legal positions. But Flynn’s error was even more grievous—he incorporated media spin into a sentencing brief. > > Flynn’s lawyers argued in his brief that the FBI had wronged him: wronged him by discouraging him from having an attorney present during his interview, by failing to warn him that false statements during the interview would be a crime, and by not telling him that his answers were inconsistent with their evidence so that he could correct himself. The Flynn-as-Deep-State-victim narrative was pleasing to Trump partisans and Mueller foes, but suicidally provocative to a federal judge at sentencing. > > Federal judges demand sincere acceptance of responsibility from people pleading guilty, especially when they’re cooperating with the government, and especially when they’re asking for a lenient sentence. Flynn’s sentencing arguments effectively told Sullivan that Flynn saw himself as a victim rather than a contrite wrongdoer. Sullivan seized ominously on that issue from the start of the hearing, interrogating Flynn’s attorneys about how their argument could be consistent with acceptance of responsibility. Eventually he forced Flynn and his attorneys to concede that they were not arguing that Flynn was entrapped or that his rights were violated, and made Flynn repeat several times that he had pleaded guilty because he was, in fact, guilty. Flynn was surprised, but criminal-defense attorneys weren’t: That’s what happens when you deflect blame at your own sentencing. And, near the end: > [@](#): > > For a year, online conspiracy theorists and marginal publications have argued that Sullivan would dismiss the case because the government failed to turn over exculpatory material, or because his interview was conducted incorrectly. Since Flynn filed his sentencing brief, more mainstream outlets, including Fox News and The Wall Street Journal’s editorial page, have taken up the cause, proclaiming that the FBI broke the law in its interview. Those arguments are, and have always been, errant nonsense, as any legal professional should know. Could it be that Flynn and his lawyers included the disastrous Flynn-as-victim pitch in their brief because they came to accept the partisan din—because they forgot that federal judges don’t react like people on Twitter? **That would be a very 2018 way to go to federal prison**. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8508 "2018-12-20T12:54:39Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I don’t much like the personality type, the jut-jawed iron ass. Kind of man you would want leading a combat mission (if you can’t have nobody going on a combat mission ever again). But in this circumstance, things being what they are, he is totally the man for the job. The Muellerstone grinds slow, but grinds exceeding fine. Your comment fascinates me. To quote myself: > [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Okay. I admit it. I’m in love with this man. > > … > > Integrity. Principles. Self-control. Mutual loyalty with staff. \<_swoon_\> This is a Real Man. > … “Personality type”? Is it the Old Hippie in you that sees “jut-jawed iron ass” where a woman sees a _well-rounded,_ grown man who shoulders duty and responsibility but also (from the article): > [@](#): > > …He lives in a gated community in Georgetown with his wife of 52 years, Ann. They have two daughters, Melissa and Cynthia, seen only when they attended his 2001 confirmation hearing as head of the FBI. The couple regularly attends services at an Episcopal church in downtown Washington. They both play golf, although Ann’s the better golfer of the two. > > And they have a weekly dinner date, usually at their favorite Italian restaurant a few miles from their home. The Muellers have been regulars for years, typically sitting unnoticed behind the bar in the back of the room. … ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8509 "2018-12-20T13:47:40Z")
> [@Guest-starring\_Id](#): > > From the WTF? Dept., just because Bloomberg online is trying to be balanced by allowing dissenting oped pieces doesn’t mean they can print outright lunacy like [this](https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-12-18/michael-flynn-sentencing-washington-owes-him-an-apology) and expect to get away without a major ding to their credibility. > Seriously Bloomberg - a fucking apology to Flynn? > Wh’a? Well, surely Bloomberg would know more about the subtleties of Flynn’s innocence or guilt than the dumb judge who presided over the trial to allow this. Right? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8510 "2018-12-20T14:35:54Z")
Naw, the best thing about that Bloomberg piece is the release date/time… about 5 hours _before_ the Judge smacked Flynn around like it was personal (and it was). Eli Lake, the opinion pieces author, was yelled at, and supported, on Twitter, et al, both before and after the proceedings, but he did his job - got views, attention, and controversy. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8511 "2018-12-20T16:45:39Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > … I hope all of the scum from this administration (including Individual-1 himself) are all quaking in their expensive leather shoes. I think I can feel the tremors from here. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8512 "2018-12-20T17:09:51Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > [From The Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mueller-seeks-roger-stones-testimony-to-house-intelligence-panel-suggesting-special-counsel-is-near-end-of-probe-of-trump-adviser/2018/12/19/ac5c3ee6-0226-11e9-b5df-5d3874f1ac36_story.html?utm_term=.f2b595d274c2): > > According to prosecutors interviewed for the story, Mueller has had unofficial transcripts of Stone’s testimony before the Intel Committee for a while. But, if Mueller is planning to take a “lying to Congress” charge to a grand jury, he would need to present the certified copy of the testimony. I suppose there may be other reasons why Mueller is asking for the clean copy, but this one is the one I like best. > The Intel Committee is holding a meeting Thursday to decide whether or not to give Mueller the transcript. With Nunes on the way out and Schiff on the way in, even if they do refuse Mueller’s request this time, it would seem likely that Mueller would get the transcript after the first of the year. And, in a surprising show of sanity, the House Intelligence Committee has voted – unanimously, no less! – to turn over the official transcript of Stone’s testimony to Mueller. > **[House Intelligence Committee votes to turn over transcript of Roger Stone...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/house-intelligence-committee-votes-to-turn-over-transcript-of-roger-stone-testimony-to-special-counsel/2018/12/20/2f3c8f6c-046d-11e9-b5df-5d3874f1ac36_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.b2202785cecf)** > > Legal experts say the move is a key step before Robert S. Mueller III could charge the longtime Trump adviser. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8513 "2018-12-20T18:03:45Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > And, in a surprising show of sanity, the House Intelligence Committee has voted – unanimously, no less! – to turn over the official transcript of Stone’s testimony to Mueller. > > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/house-intelligence-committee-votes-to-turn-over-transcript-of-roger-stone-testimony-to-special-counsel/2018/12/20/2f3c8f6c-046d-11e9-b5df-5d3874f1ac36\_story.html?noredirect=on&utm\_term=.b2202785cecf](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/house-intelligence-committee-votes-to-turn-over-transcript-of-roger-stone-testimony-to-special-counsel/2018/12/20/2f3c8f6c-046d-11e9-b5df-5d3874f1ac36_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.b2202785cecf) Mueller has had the transcript all along. All they’ve done is provide a certified copy that can be submitted to the court for indictment. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8514 "2018-12-20T18:18:01Z")
Holy. Fucking. Shit. [Russian Agents Sought Secret US Treasury Records On Clinton Backers During 2016 Campaign](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/anthonycormier/russian-agents-sought-us-treasury-records-on-clinton-backers) > [@](#): > > US Treasury Department officials used a Gmail back channel with the Russian government as the Kremlin sought sensitive financial information on its enemies in America and across the globe, according to documents reviewed by BuzzFeed News. > > The extraordinary unofficial line of communication arose in the final year of the Obama administration — in the midst of what multiple US intelligence agencies have said was a secret campaign by the Kremlin to interfere in the US election. Russian agents ostensibly trying to track ISIS instead pressed their American counterparts for private financial documents on at least two dozen dissidents, academics, private investigators, and American citizens. > > Most startlingly, Russia requested sensitive documents on Dirk, Edward, and Daniel Ziff, billionaire investors who had run afoul of the Kremlin. That request was made weeks before a Russian lawyer showed up at Trump Tower offering top campaign aides “dirt” on Hillary Clinton — including her supposed connection to the Ziff brothers. > > … **In an astonishing departure from protocol, documents show that at the same time the requests were being made, Treasury officials were using their government email accounts to send messages back and forth with a network of private Hotmail and Gmail accounts set up by the Russians, rather than communicating through the secure network usually used to exchange information with other countries.** ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8515 "2018-12-20T18:20:58Z")
BUT HER EEEEEEEEEEMAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIILLLLLLLS Fuck this timeline. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8516 "2018-12-20T18:22:08Z")
> ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8517 "2018-12-20T18:29:41Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8518 "2018-12-20T18:37:21Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Mueller has had the transcript all along. All they’ve done is provide a certified copy that can be submitted to the court for indictment. Right. It’s a big deal because it suggests Mueller is moving to indict notorious ratfucker Roger Stone. Which is awesome, if true. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8519 "2018-12-20T20:07:23Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Holy. > Fucking. > Shit. > > [Russian Agents Sought Secret US Treasury Records On Clinton Backers During 2016 Campaign](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/anthonycormier/russian-agents-sought-us-treasury-records-on-clinton-backers) Sounds like they had a bad manager, who screwed the group up. Not really related to Trump, I suppose, but I’m doubtful that he’ll ensure that the group is made productive and diligent again. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8520 "2018-12-20T21:03:27Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Holy. > Fucking. > Shit. > > [Russian Agents Sought Secret US Treasury Records On Clinton Backers During 2016 Campaign](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/anthonycormier/russian-agents-sought-us-treasury-records-on-clinton-backers) Holy. Fucking. Shit. Indeed. It makes you wonder what else Russia has infiltrated with HUMINT. FinCEN seems like a complete shit show. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8521 "2018-12-20T22:58:11Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Holy. > Fucking. > Shit. > [Russian Agents Sought Secret US Treasury Records On Clinton Backers During 2016 Campaign](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/anthonycormier/russian-agents-sought-us-treasury-records-on-clinton-backers) > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Sounds like they had a bad manager, who screwed the group up. … “A bad manager”…seriously?? > [@asahi](#): > > Holy. Fucking. Shit. Indeed. > It makes you wonder what else Russia has infiltrated with HUMINT. > FinCEN seems like a complete shit show. ^Yeah. This happened due to Putin’s operatives employing either carrot (cash for those who cooperate) or stick (threats of exposure of whatever kompromat Putin’s people had been able to gather on the Treasury workers). This wasn’t merely bad management. This was ‘active measures’—covert political warfare by Putin on the USA. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2018, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8522 "2018-12-21T00:17:09Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > “A bad manager”…seriously?? Yes? My read is that El-Hindi stopped hiring, shut down a bunch of programs, gave everyone too much work, and either started a turf war or caused one to happen due to personal negligence, all of which lead to the workers becoming sloppy and unhappy, making them prime targets for Russian efforts to recruit or mislead. I would examine the bank accounts of El-Hindi. Negligent management is a pretty key trait of someone who has been compromised. Though, it’s probably more likely just the Peter Principle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=425) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=427)