# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 440
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8783 "2019-01-07T21:33:12Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > The thing about diplomats and other personnel is, the governments of the countries they’re stationed in \*know \*about them. Depending on how adversarial the relationship between the two countries is, many of them will have tails any time they leave either their residence or the consulate/legation/embassy. My dad, for example, was stationed in the legation in Sophia, Bulgaria, for a short time during the Cold War. Any time anyone left the legation, they were followed by the secret police. (This was fairly easy to determine since almost the only people in Bulgaria at the time who could afford cars were the foreign diplomats/legation employees and the Bulgarian secret police. One night there was a big party involving most or all of the Western embassies/legations/what have yous, and the entertainment was a scavenger hunt that involved all the personnel going in and out of each other’s buildings multiple times over the course of the night. The Bulgarians were \*very \*upset.) So, this got me thinking about the Russian diplomats Trump expelled a while back: [Trump expelling 60 Russian diplomats in wake of UK nerve agent attack](https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/26/politics/us-expel-russian-diplomats/index.html) > [@](#): > > President Donald Trump on Monday ordered the expulsion of 60 Russian diplomats the US identified as intelligence agents and the closure of the Russian consulate in Seattle, the most forceful action Trump has taken against Russia to date. Of those being expelled, 48 of the alleged intelligence agents work at the Russian embassy in Washington and 12 are posted at the United Nations in New York, senior administration officials said. It seems that these 60 can be replaced by new “diplomats” and Trump wasn’t actually reducing the total number of diplomats. [Russia and the US can replace expelled diplomats](https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/03/politics/russia-us-replace-expelled-diplomats/index.html) Could this actually work for Putin in the short-term, at least? He sends the US 60 new spies that we aren’t familiar with and have to study and learn about. I can just picture Trump in bed with his cheeseburgers and on his cell phone Putin is whispering: “Donald, my dearest friend, listen, this is what we are going to do…” Trump then claims how tough on Russia he is. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8784 "2019-01-08T01:10:10Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > So, this got me thinking about the Russian diplomats Trump expelled a while back: > > [Trump expelling 60 Russian diplomats in wake of UK nerve agent attack](https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/26/politics/us-expel-russian-diplomats/index.html) > > It seems that these 60 can be replaced by new “diplomats” and Trump wasn’t actually reducing the total number of diplomats. > > [Russia and the US can replace expelled diplomats](https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/03/politics/russia-us-replace-expelled-diplomats/index.html) > > Could this actually work for Putin in the short-term, at least? He sends the US 60 new spies that we aren’t familiar with and have to study and learn about. > > I can just picture Trump in bed with his cheeseburgers and on his cell phone Putin is whispering: “Donald, my dearest friend, listen, this is what we are going to do…” > > Trump then claims how tough on Russia he is. I’m not positive, but I \*believe \*that the names and photographs are probably provided to the government of the host country before the personnel arrive, so that the host country can say yea or nay. That’s usually enough to start tracking more information down before they even arrive. That sort of effort isn’t put into every person assigned to serve in a country, mind you. They’ll have criteria to help them determine who to investigate in-depth. But by the time you arrive, the intelligence services will definitely know what you look like and probably have already decided if you’re worth keeping an eye on. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8785 "2019-01-08T01:16:59Z")
Yeah, you use polonium when you want everyone to know unambiguously that it was you. Your enemies need to know who they’re supposed to be afraid of, after all. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8786 "2019-01-08T02:21:10Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yeah, you use polonium when you want everyone to know unambiguously that it was you. Your enemies need to know who they’re supposed to be afraid of, after all. So, if the assassination team brings polonium you are supposed to be afraid of Putin, if they bring dissection tools you are supposed to be afraid of Saudi royalty, and if you’re supposed to be afraid of Trump he’ll send Maxwell Smart? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8787 "2019-01-08T02:25:44Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > So, if the assassination team brings polonium you are supposed to be afraid of Putin, if they bring dissection tools you are supposed to be afraid of Saudi royalty, and if you’re supposed to be afraid of Trump he’ll send Maxwell Smart? Missed it by th…nailed it. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8788 "2019-01-08T02:43:57Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yeah, you use polonium when you want everyone to know unambiguously that it was you. Your enemies need to know who they’re supposed to be afraid of, after all. Yes. You want to “send a message”. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8789 "2019-01-08T03:49:26Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > Huh? I’ve always thought it was a trademarked phrase used exclusively by SDMB mods. You mean one of the SDMB Mods is a Federal judge? ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8790 "2019-01-08T15:35:44Z")
“Knock it off” is a rather standard US English idiom meaning “stop it.” It is generally used when addressing children in a stern manner., like when the eleven year old and the nine year old are arguing about stupid shit. A Federal Judge telling counsel to “knock it off” is a dressing down. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8791 "2019-01-08T15:52:33Z")
Natalia Veselnitskaya has been [indicted](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/08/nyregion/trump-tower-natalya-veselnitskaya-indictment.html) by the SDNY with interfering in a civil investigation. > [@](#): > > Ms. Veselnitskaya was charged by federal prosecutors in New York with seeking to thwart a Justice Department civil fraud investigation into money laundering that involved an influential Russian businessman and his investment firm. > > The case was not directly related to the Trump Tower meeting. But a federal indictment returned in Manhattan seemed to confirm that Ms. Veselnitskaya had deep ties to senior Russian government officials. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8792 "2019-01-08T18:59:32Z")
Also interesting: Paul Manafort’s team was supposed to file his response to prosecutors’ alleging he violated his cooperation agreement last night. Apparently they did so, but [under seal](https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/08/politics/manafort-russia-court-deadline/index.html). Nobody knows why. What does it all mean? My guess is Paul Manafort has been abducted from his prison cell by aliens from Zeta Reticuli IV. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8793 "2019-01-08T19:16:00Z")
Even more interesting: That Manafort response? The big secretly bigly one mentioned above? [It seems that computing is hard.](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/zoetillman/paul-manafort-redacted-konstanin-kilimnik-lying) > [@](#): > > Lawyers for Paul Manafort filed a response on Monday to allegations by special counsel Robert Mueller’s office that he lied to investigators after signing his plea deal. Portions were supposed to be redacted and kept under seal. **But due to what appears to be an error in how the document was filed, they’re completely readable, including a section about allegations that he lied to investigators about sharing polling data with his former Russian Ukrainian business partner Konstantin Kilimnik.** > > Details about what Manafort was specifically accused of lying about were redacted in a submission from Mueller’s office filed in court last month. The improperly redacted sections in Manafort’s new submission, which was filed on Monday but not made public until Tuesday, shed light on that. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8794 "2019-01-08T19:35:52Z")
Kilimnik has ties to Russian intelligence. Manafort’s team has re-filed with the appropriate redactions. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8795 "2019-01-08T19:41:58Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > You mean one of the SDMB Mods is a Federal judge? Close. You know how people have been wondering what happened to **Bricker**? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8796 "2019-01-08T19:47:05Z")
Some speculation that it was filed unredacted on purpose in order to warn someone (Trump) about the specifics of what Mueller knows about. ---
**Author:** ![Celidin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Celidin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celidin)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8797 "2019-01-08T20:42:39Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Some speculation that it was filed unredacted on purpose in order to warn someone (Trump) about the specifics of what Mueller knows about. That’s some next-level crime-ing right there, let me tell you. ---
**Author:** ![Celidin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Celidin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celidin)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8798 "2019-01-08T20:46:27Z")
[Supreme Court refuses to block mystery grand jury subpoena](https://thehill.com/regulation/424389-supreme-court-refuses-to-block-mystery-grand-jury-subpoena? __twitter_impression=true&__ twitter_impression=true) Maybe that “significantly daily monetary penalty” will be enough to keep the judiciary open longer? (Since it’s running out of money because of the shutdown?) Clever of Mr. Roberts… ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8799 "2019-01-08T20:46:57Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Even more interesting: > > That Manafort response? The big secretly bigly one mentioned above? > > [It seems that computing is hard.](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/zoetillman/paul-manafort-redacted-konstanin-kilimnik-lying) It sounds to me like they’re trying to make the argument that Manafort just needs a nicer jail cell with a plant and the opportunity to go out and play chess with other people, and if he only had that, his memory would get a lot clearer. I don’t get the sense that they’re trying to deny the accusation so much as entice Mueller to give them a second chance…for what should be just a small pittance of a favor. I assume that Mueller has enough history dealing with slimeballs to know whether it’s worth offering the second chance, or if it would just be a waste of time. I think he would only do it if he can force Manafort to accept some provisions where it was clear to Manafort that he was inescapably being monitored and literally couldn’t get away with scratching his butt without being caught doing it, and that his family and friends would lose out even far more significantly than they already are. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8800 "2019-01-08T20:58:31Z")
Here’s how Garry Kasparov sees tonight’s address: > [@](#): > > A few things to listen for tonight. 1) The words “crisis,” “threat,” “emergency,” & “enemies” without evidence or on “secret” evidence. 2) Framing Trump’s base as victims of these threats. 3) Blaming predecessors & opponents for not dealing with the threats, or for causing them. Whoever buys this stuff is pretty crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8801 "2019-01-08T21:01:04Z")
Manafort’s health is suffering from his incarceration, his lawyers say: [Manafort defense lawyers say the former Trump campaign chairman suffers from depression, anxiety, gout - MarketWatch](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/manafort-defense-lawyers-say-the-former-trump-campaign-chairman-suffers-from-depression-anxiety-gout-2019-01-08) > [@pulykamell](#): > > That’s hilarious. The only time I use the phrase “knock it off” is with my 4- and 2-year-old. How appropriate here. Not long after I graduated from law school, I told my preschooler that his repeated questions about when he had to go to bed were already “asked and answered.” At least I didn’t say “Objection!” first. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8802 "2019-01-08T21:03:23Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I told my preschooler that his repeated questions about when he had to go to bed were already “asked and answered.” Why? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=439) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=441)