# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 445
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8883 "2019-01-12T17:56:12Z")
Aspenglow snuck in while I was typing and sort of answered the question. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8884 "2019-01-12T18:03:41Z")
> [@cuauhtemoc](#): > > Aspenglow snuck in while I was typing and sort of answered the question. I think you can be confident that Mueller is more than clever enough to figure out ways to get his evidence before the American people. He also – finally – has protection from Democrats in the House who will work to share what he has. January 3, 2019, was in fact the earliest date he could do anything substantive. And despite his best efforts, it will be up to us, the citizens of this country, to do something with what he puts before us. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8885 "2019-01-12T18:32:05Z")
Correct me if I’m wrong, but if the president is found to have been working for the Russians, is this not beyond collusion/conspiracy, and into full-on treason? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8886 "2019-01-12T18:39:48Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > How long can the Senate go on saying, “We won’t vote on any bills at all until President Known Russian Asset gives the OK, even if it is harming the nation according to Russia’s master plan?” At some point, McConnell’s narrative may change from, “I won’t hold a vote on any House bill unless the President agrees with it” to “I won’t hold a vote on any House bill because I have concerns about foreign influence on the President… except for when he nominates judges, those dudes are the bomb.” ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8887 "2019-01-12T18:40:16Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Correct me if I’m wrong, but if the president is found to have been working for the Russians, is this not beyond collusion/conspiracy, and into full-on treason? Depends on the definition in Yertle The Turtle’s dictionary. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8888 "2019-01-12T18:41:11Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > The NSA knows everything. The FBI knows everything. Mueller knows everything. > > Mother of god. Mother of God indeed–depending on what they’ve actually found, right? It seems like there’s a wide range of possible results to the investigation. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8889 "2019-01-12T19:58:34Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Correct me if I’m wrong, but if the president is found to have been working for the Russians, is this not beyond collusion/conspiracy, and into full-on treason? Treason is helping and giving comfort to the enemy. We will need to define what an enemy is before that’s done. Is Russia an ‘enemy’. I don’t want to think so, but it is certainly a hostile country. Putin has got just what he wanted with Trump. No doubt he wakes up with a smile on his face every day. “So, what did he do now? Hahahhahhah”. Our President is a moron. Treason? Can you convict a moron of treason? I suppose, but I would prefer those that support him see what they have done. Donald Trump deserves to spend the rest of his life out in a court room. Exposed for all to see. Sure he will have his attorneys and ‘fixers’, but he needs to be there for every god dam moment. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8890 "2019-01-12T20:11:00Z")
You know who else would have known all about Trump’s involvement with Russia and has done _nothing_ to stop his agenda? Mike Pompeo. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8891 "2019-01-12T20:35:30Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > Here’s a pretty good Twitter thread. I don’t know this account, but the analysis seems reasonable, and it was retweeted approvingly by another guy who’s a decently well regarded political analyst. > > [https://twitter.com/HoarseWisperer/status/1083931796419563520?s=19](https://twitter.com/HoarseWisperer/status/1083931796419563520?s=19) > > The guy points out from the NYT article that the FBI doesn’t just spin up CI investigations on a whim, and in this case especially, they only went forward with the inquiry because they had “strong evidence”. They were becoming concerned before the Comey firing. So, completely separate from the obstruction issue, the FBI had enough evidence to take the extraordinary step of initiating a CI inquiry targeting the motherfucking President of the United States. That’s some cheap paperback thriller shit right there. > > The CI investigation was rolled up into the Mueller investigation, meaning that (in this guy’s opinion), while we were all fretting about the Mueller investigation being ended, Mueller had the CI investigation up his sleeve. And that investigation would just be taken up by the FBI even if the SC was fired. The obstruction case is secondary to the CI case! > > Also, this guy argues that the FBI was doing ongoing surveillance through 2017 and 2018, and sharing everything with Mueller. So, when people would come out of meetings with Mueller all goggle eyed and saying Mueller knows everything, well, _Mueller knows everything!_ > > And finally, one of Obama’s last orders before heading out to windsurf in Hawaii was to open up the NSA’s raw Intel databases to the FBI and CIA. Before that, if FBI wanted to get information from the NSA’s creepily large data set, they’d have to submit a request and the NSA would provide filtered results. Now, the FBI can access all those goodies directly. > > Mueller never interviewed Kushner and some other players because he didn’t need to, and because he didn’t want to tip anyone off to the CI investigation. And he was probably pretty indifferent to interviewing Trump. > > The NSA knows everything. The FBI knows everything. Mueller knows everything. > > Mother of god. Forgive me, but I’m drawing a blank on the meaning of the abbreviation “CI,” and would appfeciate a ltiile help. TIA ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8892 "2019-01-12T20:37:12Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Forgive me, but I’m drawing a blank on the meaning of the abbreviation “CI,” and would appfeciate a ltiile help. > > TIA Oops, sorry. Counterintelligence. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8893 "2019-01-12T20:42:54Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > How long can the Senate go on saying, “We won’t vote on any bills at all until President Known Russian Asset gives the OK, even if it is harming the nation according to Russia’s master plan?” When the report drops and McConnell says, Climate Report style, “I just don’t believe it!”, what then? It seems like there should be consequences for aiding and abetting a known Russian asset, but since it is Congress there is probably some Confederate-era “get away with murder” clause I am not familiar with. Yeah, it does seem as though Russia has deifnatly won this round. Our government is crippled, our law enforcement agencies are demoralized, our economy is remarkably fragile. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8894 "2019-01-12T20:44:42Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8895 "2019-01-12T20:59:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **enipla** : > > I would endorse Gallagher as President over the current cluster. It would be a big step up. Which one? The original who used to be funny, or his less-funny brother? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8896 "2019-01-12T21:27:20Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Our President is a moron. Treason? Can you convict a moron of treason? I suppose, but I would prefer those that support him see what they have done. Why? 😕 How do you suppose they will react? Unless it’s a slight variation on “they’ll smugly approve and immediately begin denigrating others as ‘sore losers’”, I’m gonna think you haven’t been paying attention these past few years. Trump’s supporters _want_ to destroy this country. There are different reasons, but they want to destroy this country so they can make a new one they think is more in their image. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8897 "2019-01-12T21:37:01Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Trump’s supporters _want_ to destroy this country. There are different reasons, but they want to destroy this country so they can make a new one they think is more in their image. Some maybe, but most, I don’t think have thought that far. They want to destroy the country because that is where the liberals live, and they want to hurt the liberals, no matter the cost to themselves. I forget if it was a poster or a pundit, but someone said (horribly paraphrased) that the dream of a conservative is to be the last survivor on a world of corpses. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8898 "2019-01-12T21:37:48Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Trump’s supporters _want_ to destroy this country. There are different reasons, but they want to destroy this country so they can make a new one they think is more in their image. This article has been posted in the Trump threads before, but it deserves revisiting: [This Political Theorist Predicted the Rise of Trumpism. His Name Was Hunter S. Thompson](https://www.thenation.com/article/this-political-theorist-predicted-the-rise-of-trumpism-his-name-was-hunter-s-thompson/) _In Hell’s Angels, the gonzo journalist wrote about left-behind people motivated only by “an ethic of total retaliation.” Sound familiar?_ > [@](#): > > Most people read Hell’s Angels for the lurid stories of sex and drugs. But that misses the point entirely. What’s truly shocking about reading the book today is how well Thompson foresaw the retaliatory, right-wing politics that now goes by the name of Trumpism. After following the motorcycle guys around for months, Thompson concluded that the most striking thing about them was not their hedonism but their “ethic of total retaliation” against a technologically advanced and economically changing America in which they felt they’d been counted out and left behind. Thompson saw the appeal of that retaliatory ethic. He claimed that a small part of every human being longs to burn it all down, especially when faced with great and impersonal powers that seem hostile to your very existence. In the United States, a place of ever greater and more impersonal powers, the ethic of total retaliation was likely to catch on. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8899 "2019-01-12T21:41:08Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Some maybe, but most, I don’t think have thought that far. They want to destroy the country because that is where the liberals live, and they want to hurt the liberals, no matter the cost to themselves. > > I forget if it was a poster or a pundit, but someone said (horribly paraphrased) that the dream of a conservative is to be the last survivor on a world of corpses. I posted this link in another thread: [“He’s not hurting the people he needs to be”: a Trump voter says the quiet part out loud](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/1/8/18173678/trump-shutdown-voter-florida) _A Trump voter hurt by the shutdown reveals the real reason the president attracts hardcore supporters._ > [@](#): > > Most Marianna residents support Trump’s border wall, his key demand in the shutdown fight, and don’t blame him for the fight. But Crystal Minton, a secretary at the prison who is also a single mother caring for disabled parents, had a somewhat different reaction — one that reveals an essential truth about the core Trump’s political appeal. > > “I voted for him, and he’s the one who’s doing this,” Minton told Mazzei. “I thought he was going to do good things. He’s not hurting the people he needs to be hurting.” > > _He’s not hurting the people he needs to be hurting._ > > Think about that line for a second. Roll it over in your head. In essence, Minton is declaring that one aim of the Trump administration is to hurt people — the right people. Making America great again, in her mind, involves inflicting pain. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8900 "2019-01-12T22:25:58Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > Mother of God indeed–depending on what they’ve actually found, right? It seems like there’s a wide range of possible results to the investigation. When the Monica Lewinski firefight was on, there were serious questions and debates to be had about the actions of the power of the Special Counsel, whether this constituted an impeachable offense, how did this relate to the original Whitewater investigation, when did Hillary know, etc. What nobody questioned was the fact of Bill Clinton’s cock in that girl’s mouth. And, in turn, the narrative behind all this will be just as simple: Donald Trump is a guy who did business with Russians for 20+ years, ran for President in 2015, and when his friends said “hey, want some help?”, he naturally replied “Sure! You guys love me!” It already _is_ the narrative based upon both statements made by Donald, Donald Jr, etc. It’s out there. And this openness can make it hard to see. So we know what Mueller is going to find out: that Trump colluded with Russians to win the election and this conspiracy continued after his inauguration, and we know this because of Trump’s actions themselves. (This is why Papadopoulos was always a dead end, his case wrapped so early - Trump didn’t need George to make high-level contacts with Putin, Trump already had those connections.) ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8901 "2019-01-12T23:15:09Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Depends on the definition in Yertle The Turtle’s dictionary. They can hang that bastard too, when they hang Trump. Together. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/8902 "2019-01-12T23:24:32Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > And, in turn, the narrative behind all this will be just as simple: Donald Trump is a guy who did business with Russians for 20+ years, ran for President in 2015, and when his friends said “hey, want some help?”, he naturally replied “Sure! You guys love me!” > > It already _is_ the narrative based upon both statements made by Donald, Donald Jr, etc. It’s out there. And this openness can make it hard to see. [QFT.](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/07/11/us/politics/donald-trump-jr-email-text.html) > [@Rob Goldstone](#): > > The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father. > > This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump - helped along by Aras and Emin. > [@Donald Trump](#): > > Seems we have some time and if it’s what you say I love it especially later in the summer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=444) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=446)