# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 451
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9003 "2019-01-16T14:04:27Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > The guy seems to think that the finest thing he can serve to White House guests is a Big Mac. Really, what more needs to be said? “…we have 300 hamburgers, many, many french fries — all of our favorite foods.” All of _your_ favorite foods, President Bell & Howell. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9004 "2019-01-16T14:05:19Z")
[The Atlantic has an interesting article](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/01/times-story-trump-and-russia-big-deal/580534/) about reactions to the NYTimes story, and What It All Means. > [@](#): > > And so it seemed to some readers that the story was what the president’s former lawyer John Dowd once referred to as a “nothingburger,” simply reiterating a bunch of things that everyone had already known to be the case. “It’s a huge story,” wrote our colleague Marty Lederman, “the biggest in decades. But it’s been the story for close to two years.” > > At the same time, other commentators treated the Times’s scoop as a very big deal indeed—perhaps the biggest deal yet over the course of all reporting on the links between the Trump team and the Russian government. “Manchurian Candidate?” tweeted former FBI counterintelligence official Frank Figliuzzi. He was far from alone in invoking the thriller famous for its depiction of a Communist conspiracy to install a sleeper agent at the helm of American government. More generally, the notion that the president had been individually designated as a counterintelligence subject burned up cable news and was so explosive that no less a figure than former U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara expressed doubt on his podcast about whether the reporting was even true. > > … > > And the step is, in fact, highly controversial even among those with deep expertise in national security law and investigations. On Lawfare alone, we have seen a vibrant debate on the subject. The former Justice Department national-security chief David Kris sees the FBI’s action as a natural, perhaps inevitable, reflection of the state of the evidence at the time, writing, “Although I find the president’s behavior shocking, I am not shocked, or at least not surprised, at the FBI’s investigative response.” By contrast, Jack Goldsmith—who ran the Office of Legal Counsel at Justice—describes it as “premised on an inversion of the normal assumptions of Article II of the Constitution.” And Stewart Baker, who was general counsel at the National Security Agency and a policy guru at the Department of Homeland Security, saw in the Times story the long shadow of former FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover, writing of the FBI, “There is only one American agency with a history of destroying American politicians to serve its own bureaucratic interests.” > > …it’s possible that while journalists and legal scholars have been wringing their hands about whether the president committed crimes and about a hundred different threads of possible corruption, Mueller has been focused single-mindedly on Russian activity during the 2016 election and coordination with, or support of, that activity on the U.S. side, including efforts by the president to prevent its investigation. Well worth the read. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9005 "2019-01-17T03:02:23Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I must say that after viewing the snippets of his testimony yesterday, I’m much less alarmed by Barr than I was prior to his hearing. Are you? Not me. This is a man who: [ul] [li]Believes there is more evidence for an investigation into the Clinton Foundation and the “Uranium 1 Deal” than there is for the investigation into Trump’s “collusion.” To be fair, he tried to back away from his earlier writings about the matter but got nailed when [Peter Baker of the New York Times posted the text of Barr’s email to him relating to this issue on Twitter](https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/16/politics/bill-barr-uranium-one/index.html) (CNN).[/li][li]Made the following conflicting statements at the confirmation hearing yesterday: 1) Would abide by the advisory DOJ policy (not law, mind you) that a sitting president cannot be indicted, and 2) Would release as much of Mueller’s report as he could “in accordance with the rules and regulations governing” release of the report. Of course he fails to mention that _he_ is in charge of what rules and regulations govern the release of the report. The rules to which he refers apply to bringing charges – something he said couldn’t be done. [/li] He then went on to leave himself a tremendous amount of latitude to withhold much of the information in Mueller’s report, including information Congress would need to determine if Trump committed high crimes and/or misdemeanors. In other words, he will fight any indictment Mueller may wish to file, and simultaneously gave himself room to stifle the information Congress would need to impeach. [li]Would not agree to be bound by the recommendations of career ethics lawyers in the DOJ if they conclude he should recuse himself from overseeing the Mueller investigation.[/li][li]Praised Jeff Sessions in glowing terms as one of the best AGs ever.[/li][li]Stated he views fentanyl as “sort of the new crack.” Do you know how he dealt with crack in the 90s?[/li][/ul] Still think he’s great? I don’t. I think he is exactly the man Trump and Republicans dreamed he could be. Before his confirmation hearing, I had hoped he might be a pick in the manner of Rod Rosenstein and Christopher Wray, both Trump picks who turned out to be Institutionalists first and Trump supporters second. But I think he is more in the style of Mike Pompeo – a true danger to this country and its values. And remember, this is a Dick Cheney pick. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9006 "2019-01-17T03:18:33Z")
Giuliani concedes that the Trump campaign may have collided with Russia. > **[Rudy Giuliani says Trump didn't collude with Russia but can't say if campaign...](https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/01/16/politics/rudy-giuliani-cnntv/index.html)** > > Rudy Giuliani said Wednesday that he never denied President Donald Trump's campaign colluded with the Russian government during the 2016 campaign, only that the President himself was not involved in collusion. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9007 "2019-01-17T03:22:52Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Giuliani concedes that the Trump campaign may have collided with Russia. > > [https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/01/16/politics/rudy-giuliani-cnntv/index.html](https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/01/16/politics/rudy-giuliani-cnntv/index.html) \ “Collided” is right. 😉 Rudy: “Oh, sure, _campaign folks_ may have colluded with Russians. But Trump never knew anything about it. Not right away. And so what if he _did_ know? It’s not a crime to talk to Russians!! Hillary talks to Russians!! Lock her up!!” We’re so far down the rabbit hole, I fear we will never escape. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9008 "2019-01-17T03:35:27Z")
This is Giuliani’s standard move for getting out in front of news that’s coming out. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9009 "2019-01-17T04:22:02Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > This is Giuliani’s standard move for getting out in front of news that’s coming out. That’s so. It does raise a thought about what might be about to drop soon. I hate to get my hopes up, though. (Pleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleaseplease…!!!) ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9010 "2019-01-17T05:09:04Z")
Given RudyG’s admission, wonder why the GOPTrump team 1. Isn’t just PISSED at Manafort now 2. Just passed legislation lifting sanctions on the buyers of Manafort’s data ? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9011 "2019-01-17T05:11:14Z")
> [@cuauhtemoc](#): > > Could the president withdraw his nomination at this point? If he went before the Senate and said “I will recuse myself if the career ethics people tell me to” or “I will totally make every word of the special counsel’s report public,” could Trump say “Never mind, I de-nominate you, go home”? Could that be a factor in how he’s answering the Democrats’ questions? The President can withdraw a nomination at any time before a vote on the Senate floor, I believe. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9012 "2019-01-17T05:54:58Z")
You pass confirmation, President tries to withdraw your nomination, and you take the job _anyway_? Now, that’s _chutzpah_! ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9013 "2019-01-17T09:44:10Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > The guy seems to think that the finest thing he can serve to White House guests is a Big Mac. Really, what more needs to be said? LOL, you must not have kids. “The president serves everyone McDonald’s” is the worst possible way to turn kids against him. My daughter LOVES McD’s, although we only let her have it on rare occasion, generally when we are on a long road trip. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9014 "2019-01-17T12:22:31Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > We’re so far down the rabbit hole, I fear we will never escape. More like black hole, I think. I’m hoping that as a nation, we have not passed the event horizon and are thus invisible to the rest of the world. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > LOL, you must not have kids. “The president serves everyone McDonald’s” is the worst possible way to turn kids against him. My daughter LOVES McD’s, although we only let her have it on rare occasion, generally when we are on a long road trip. Is your daughter under voting age? I’m sure even Clemson footballers would regard Mickey Dee as fuel, not food. Was there anything about what their reaction was when they walked in on a pile of gelid quarter-pounders? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9015 "2019-01-17T12:38:48Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > LOL, you must not have kids. “The president serves everyone McDonald’s” is the worst possible way to turn kids against him. My daughter LOVES McD’s, although we only let her have it on rare occasion, generally when we are on a long road trip. Not getting your point. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9016 "2019-01-17T13:33:19Z")
We really don’t have a Michael Cohen thread, so putting this here: [Cohen hired firm to try to rig online polls for Trump, only paid part of bill with bag of cash: report](https://thehill.com/homenews/news/425785-cohen-hired-firm-to-try-to-rig-online-polls-for-trump-only-paid-part-of-bill) > [@](#): > > The head of a small polling firm used byPresident Trump’s campaign during the 2016 election says that Michael Cohen, the president’s former lawyer, paid less than half of what his company was owed in cash after hiring the firm to rig two online polls in the president’s favor. > > John Gauger, director of RedFinch Solutions LLC and the **chief information officer at Liberty University** told The Wall Street Journalin an interview that Cohen paid him just over $12,000 in cash presented to him in a Wal-Mart shopping bag that also contained a boxing glove Cohen said was froma Brazilian mixed-martial arts fighter. > > The cash, Gauger told the Journal, was for his firm’s unsuccessful attempts to rig two online polls to show Trump winning during the 2016 election, while Gauger says that Cohen also directed him during that time to set up a Twitter account, “Women for Cohen,” thatremains active todayand describes Cohen as a booster of the president and a sex symbol. Bolding mine - didn’t want anyone to miss that little detail. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9017 "2019-01-17T13:50:04Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Are you? Not me. He’s obviously not the ideal choice, but I think he seems to be a little more neutral than I initially thought. [quote=“Aspenglow, post:9005, topic:800093”] [LIST] [li]Believes there is more evidence for an investigation into the Clinton Foundation and the “Uranium 1 Deal” than there is for the investigation into Trump’s “collusion.” To be fair, he tried to back away from his earlier writings about the matter but got nailed when [Peter Baker of the New York Times posted the text of Barr’s email to him relating to this issue on Twitter](https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/16/politics/bill-barr-uranium-one/index.html) (CNN).[/li][/QUOTE] His musings via email are one thing. What concerns me the most are what happens when you put someone in a position in which they can directly influence the outcome of an investigation? Is there evidence that he’s hyper-partisan to the put where he would try to impede an investigation for purely political reasons? I felt that was obviously the case with Matt Whittaker, and I had worried that was true with Barr, but I’m less convinced than I was that Barr is going to be Trump’s lackey. I accept at face value that, at this stage in his life, he hasn’t much to gain unless he’s trying to become president one day, and I highly doubt that’s the case. Being an AG isn’t a good springboard for the Oval Office. [quote=“Aspenglow, post:9005, topic:800093”] [li]Made the following conflicting statements at the confirmation hearing yesterday: 1) Would abide by the advisory DOJ policy (not law, mind you) that a sitting president cannot be indicted, and 2) Would release as much of Mueller’s report as he could “in accordance with the rules and regulations governing” release of the report. Of course he fails to mention that _he_ is in charge of what rules and regulations govern the release of the report. The rules to which he refers apply to bringing charges – something he said couldn’t be done. [/li][/QUOTE] I am in agreement that a sitting president can’t (or at least shouldn’t be indicted) - that’s why impeachment exists. Nor do I view it as necessarily problematic if he treats confidential documents related to non-indictments as confidential. Keep in mind, too, that there may be ways for the House to get much, if not most, of the crucial information out in the public sphere. But there will be a lot of the investigation that remains classified and confidential, and that may be Barr’s call alone. Law enforcement and national security agencies might intervene as well. I didn’t read into his testimony that he was going to bury it all. Barr is certainly not my first choice for an AG, but then again Trump wasn’t my choice for president. I am not saying that Barr couldn’t ultimately turn out to be bad news, only that I’m not quite as anxious about him as I was before. I guess the jury’s still out. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9018 "2019-01-17T14:16:59Z")
Cohen directly [implicates](https://www.wsj.com/articles/poll-rigging-for-trump-and-creating-womenforcohen-one-it-firms-work-order-11547722801?mod=e2tw) the president in [poll rigging](https://twitter.com/MichaelCohen212/status/1085900900835778560): “As for the @WSJ article on poll rigging, what I did was at the direction of and for the sole benefit of @realDonaldTrump @POTUS. I truly regret my blind loyalty to a man who doesn’t deserve it.” ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9019 "2019-01-17T14:37:22Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Giuliani concedes that the Trump campaign may have collided with Russia. > > [https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/01/16/politics/rudy-giuliani-cnntv/index.html](https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/01/16/politics/rudy-giuliani-cnntv/index.html) [Questions raised about Trump’s loyalty.](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/1/17/1826870/-Russian-News-of-the-Times-Trump-s-loyalty-to-Russia-under-investigation) ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9020 "2019-01-17T14:48:31Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Cohen directly [implicates](https://www.wsj.com/articles/poll-rigging-for-trump-and-creating-womenforcohen-one-it-firms-work-order-11547722801?mod=e2tw) the president in [poll rigging](https://twitter.com/MichaelCohen212/status/1085900900835778560): Most of the first link is behind a paywall, but what I read is hillarious. IT company shows up at Trump Tower to collect $50k for services rendered. Cohen gives them $12k in cash in a Walmart bag, and a boxing glove from some MMA guy. The story cuts off there; it may be that Cohen also gave the company some Trump steaks, a BOGO coupon for soup, a genuine replica Civil War hat, or a ketchup bottle actually once used by DJT. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9021 "2019-01-17T15:09:33Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > … it may be that Cohen also gave the company some Trump steaks, a BOGO coupon for soup, a genuine replica Civil War hat, or a ketchup bottle actually once used by DJT. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Trump, even through flunkeys, has \*never \*overpaid anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9022 "2019-01-17T15:30:01Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > it may be that Cohen also gave the company some Trump **steaks** You mean hamberders? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=450) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=452)