# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 454
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9063 "2019-01-18T05:23:00Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > We do have precedent of a president suborning perjury, and committing perjury himself, and being acquitted by the Senate, so it’s not out of this world to imagine the GOP-led Senate doing the same. Love it or hate it, that’ll be the talking point. If the Moscow Tower deal itself was illegal it might be a different story. … during a stock market boom in the roaring 90s when the internet was fun and the President was a good ol’ boy who even his opponents liked (and grew more popular as the proceedings went on, one of the reasons why he won) vs … during a trade war and a government shutdown caused by a racist President, one whom nobody likes, who is financially beholden to Vladimir Putin’s buddies, one whose political fortunes have dropped by an average of 1 point per week the past 5 weeks, one whom 62% of independents have _already_ decided to vote against him in 2020. These things are not like the other, Dacien. ---
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9064 "2019-01-18T05:24:58Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > … during a stock market boom in the roaring 90s when the internet was fun and the President was a good ol’ boy who even his opponents liked (and grew more popular as the proceedings went on, one of the reasons why he won) > > vs > > … during a trade war and a government shutdown caused by a racist President, one whom nobody likes, who is financially beholden to Vladimir Putin’s buddies, one whose political fortunes have dropped by an average of 1 point per week the past 5 weeks, one whom 62% of independents have _already_ decided to vote against him in 2020. > > These things are not like the other, Dacien. Just sayin’, it could happen, and the right-wing talking heads are going to trot this talking point out, so just a friendly reminder from ol’ Dacien to prep your rebuttals now when the vote is upon us. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9065 "2019-01-18T05:25:51Z")
I think focusing on reality is a pretty good rebuttal. This man has spit on the very people you are saying is going to defend him. The only reason they would do that to the conclusion you reach is if they are complicit themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9066 "2019-01-18T05:26:44Z")
Maybe they will vote to convict. They might huddle and decide they can finally be rid of him and look like the heroes doing it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9067 "2019-01-18T05:27:55Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > Seriously though, impeachment or no, Republicans are never going to hear the end of it that Trump was our guy. I feel like we’re going to have to wait maybe 50 years before it’s not a relevant gloat any more. I don’t know how anyone will look at their friends and family members and neighbours who cheered for this ignorant, petulant, incompetent racist boob the same way ever again, regardless of the future political fortunes of the Republican party. Trump’s leaving won’t suddenly turn his supporters into decent human beings, they’ll still be the kinds of people who support torturing prisoners and murdering their families or kidnapping children and putting them in internment camps long after Trump’s skeleton falls out of the gibbet. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9068 "2019-01-18T05:28:55Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > Maybe they will vote to convict. They might huddle and decide they can finally be rid of him and look like the heroes doing it. That would be my game plan and, in fact, is what I told Cruz and Cornyn tonight. (Well, their voice mails. 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9069 "2019-01-18T05:29:49Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > I don’t know how anyone will look at their friends and family members and neighbours who cheered for this ignorant, petulant, incompetent racist boob the same way ever again, regardless of the future political fortunes of the Republican party. Trump’s leaving won’t suddenly turn his supporters into decent human beings, they’ll still be the kinds of people who support torturing prisoners and murdering their families or kidnapping children and putting them in internment camps long after Trump’s skeleton falls out of the gibbet. Luckily, the vast majority of Americans, even those that voted for Trump, are much more nuanced and complex, and do not support torture, murder, and kidnapping. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9070 "2019-01-18T05:38:28Z")
I have a hunch that the written answers from Donald and his team do not match the Buzzfeed reporting tonight. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9071 "2019-01-18T05:51:05Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > Luckily, the vast majority of Americans, even those that voted for Trump, are much more nuanced and complex, and do not support torture, murder, and kidnapping. Every Trump supporter supports these things, either explicitly out of racism or xenophobia, or implicitly out of a desire for tax breaks or conservative judges on the Supreme Court or whatever they’re getting in return for voting for a torture loving racist scumbag. The latter sort are no less vile than the former. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9072 "2019-01-18T05:58:37Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > Seriously though, impeachment or no, Republicans are never going to hear the end of it that Trump was our guy. I feel like we’re going to have to wait maybe 50 years before it’s not a relevant gloat any more. Nixon was your guy. (Hey, it’s only been 45 years. 😃 ) ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9073 "2019-01-18T06:09:01Z")
Like Nixon, Trump, too, schemed to defraud an election. Unlike Nixon, Trump didn’t want to win. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9074 "2019-01-18T06:13:30Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Nixon was your guy. (Hey, it’s only been 45 years. 😃 ) And 45 years before that the Republicans saddled America with Herbert Hoover, another businessman turned President. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9075 "2019-01-18T06:34:16Z")
For future reference (thanks to Twitter) 18 USC § 1622 subornation of perjury 18 USC § 1512 witness tampering 18 USC § 1505 Obstruction of proceedings before departments, agencies, and committees 18 USC § 371 conspiracy ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9076 "2019-01-18T07:36:42Z")
Assuming this is true, I’m setting aside another bucket of popcorn for the reaction of CFSG’s base. Yes, a great many of them will man the Fake News barricades to the bitter end; on the other hand, second only to a woman scorned is the fury of a True Believer who comes to realize — as some do — that (s)he has been led down the garden path. The belated recriminations and crocodile tears should be a sight to behold. (Notwithstanding the above, should CFSG resign or be removed from office I expect that my reaction will be what I felt when Nixon departed: not gloating, but the same sense of relief that descends when one stops hitting oneself on the head with a hammer.) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9077 "2019-01-18T07:48:31Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > Luckily, the vast majority of Americans, even those that voted for Trump, are much more nuanced and complex, and do not support torture, murder, and kidnapping. That is wonderful news! ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9078 "2019-01-18T07:52:45Z")
Do we all agree that this is the most historic time in American political history since Watergate if not the Civil War or the founding era? And the most significant period in all of world history since the Berlin Wall came down? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9079 "2019-01-18T10:45:30Z")
Watergate - Yes Civil War - No Berlin Wall - No This has been your official ranking of historical importances courtesy of **friedo** awake at a quarter to six in the AM because of a barfing disease. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9080 "2019-01-18T10:53:18Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Do we all agree that this is the most historic time in American political history since Watergate if not the Civil War or the founding era? And the most significant period in all of world history since the Berlin Wall came down? I wouldn’t say it’s 9/11 big, but it’s certainly generation-defining. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9081 "2019-01-18T14:27:43Z")
And by the way: that piddly $12k that Cohen/Trump paid to rig the polling was undoubtedly a violation of campaign finance laws. Just another drop in the bucket, of course. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9082 "2019-01-18T14:30:00Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > … > This has been your official ranking of historical importances courtesy of **friedo** awake at a quarter to six in the AM because of a barfing disease. Nice avatar/post combo! Hope you feel better. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=453) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=455)