# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 459
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9163 "2019-01-19T18:24:10Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > This reminds me of that scene in All The President’s Men, where Woodward & Bernstein run a story that turned out to be wrong, because they misinterpreted what their source was saying. They blew it, but it didn’t mean that Nixon wasn’t a crook and that justice did not eventually prevail. But justice did not eventually prevail against Nixon. Thanks to his preemptive resignation and Ford’s subsequent pardon, justice never even got to lay its hands on him. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9164 "2019-01-19T18:48:14Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Cohen definitely lied to Congress; Trump probably told him to lie; but there is some flaw in Buzzfeed’s reporting of those facts. There’s a really big evidentiary flaw. Cohen saying Trump told him to lie is pretty weak evidence for an indictment let alone trying to get a conviction. There’s plenty of room for reasonable doubt when comparing the testimony of two witnesses when neither is very credible. Cohen is after all the guy that was lying. Buzzfeed said there was independent evidence supporting Cohen’s claim that Trump told him to lie. That piece was huge. That’s into the territory where Mueller already has at least one recommendation for an indictment of Trump written in his draft report. AG Barr has already named that behavior as something that is NOT in executive privilege during his testimony. If accurate that’s claiming evidence at the level of the Nixon tapes. Buzzfeed’s story just isn’t accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9165 "2019-01-19T20:16:01Z")
Note: please don appropriate tinfoil headwear before reading the following speculation. Anther possibility is the the Buzzfeed story was a Dan Rather/[witness for the prosecution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witness_for_the_Prosecution_(1957_film)) ploy, in which Buzzfeed was sent a story with phony evidence with the hope that its exposure would taint all of the other evidence surrounding Trump’s Malfeasance. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9166 "2019-01-19T21:00:29Z")
That doesn’t sound _too_ farfetched to me, although I doubt that any of Trump’s flunkies are that clever. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9167 "2019-01-19T22:30:52Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Note: please don appropriate tinfoil headwear before reading the following speculation. > > Anther possibility is the the Buzzfeed story was a Dan Rather/[witness for the prosecution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witness_for_the_Prosecution_(1957_film)) ploy, in which Buzzfeed was sent a story with phony evidence with the hope that its exposure would taint all of the other evidence surrounding Trump’s Malfeasance. > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > That doesn’t sound _too_ farfetched to me, although I doubt that any of Trump’s flunkies are that clever. That kind of makes sense. And if that is true, then Mueller’s statement nipped that in the bud. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9168 "2019-01-19T22:58:11Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > That doesn’t sound _too_ farfetched to me, although I doubt that any of Trump’s flunkies are that clever. I don’t recall exact specifics offhand but isn’t Trump known for sending flattering stories about himself to the New York gossip rags back in the 80’s? Planting a story that gets everyone frothing at the mouth about impeachment and having that story turn out to be fake news is cleverness way above Trump’s pay grade but put enough of Trump’s monkeys in front of enough keyboards and you never know what you might get. ---
**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9169 "2019-01-19T23:20:37Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > As I remember it the problem was the story said Hugh Sloan testified before the grand jury about something very specific (maybe it was who the people were that had access to the secret cash in Maurice Stans safe, maybe that wasn’t it exactly). The problem with the story was that Sloan had never told the grand jury this information, **not that the information was inaccurate**. I’ve also been trying to remember the specifics of that case, and I think you’ve got it. The bit I’ve bolded is the key point to keep in mind. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9170 "2019-01-19T23:59:28Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Which I guess is probably analogous to what’s going on today with BuzzFeed. Cohen definitely lied to Congress; Trump probably told him to lie; but there is some flaw in Buzzfeed’s reporting of those facts. Yes, the flaw in Buzzfeed’s reporting of the facts is actually pinpointed (well, indicated) in the statement by Mueller’s spokesman: > [@](#): > > Buzzfeed’s description of specific statements \*\* to the Special Counsel’s Office\*\*, and characterization of documents and testimony **obtained by this office** , regarding Michael Cohen’s Congressional testimony are not accurate. It’s Buzzfeed’s strong implication that their source _is within Mueller’s team_ that Mueller pushed back against with the release of the statement. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9171 "2019-01-20T00:05:28Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > As I remember it the problem was the story said Hugh Sloan testified before the grand jury about something very specific (maybe it was who the people were that had access to the secret cash in Maurice Stans safe, maybe that wasn’t it exactly). The problem with the story was that Sloan had never told the grand jury this information, not that the information was inaccurate. > [@HelenGawn](#): > > I’ve also been trying to remember the specifics of that case, and I think you’ve got it. The bit I’ve bolded is the key point to keep in mind. This is correct. Woodstein correctly reported that Haldeman was the fifth person who could tell Sloan to disburse money, but incorrect to state that Sloan had testified to that at the grand jury hearing. Sloan later said he would have said this, and I think even said he wanted to tell the grand jury this, but no one asked him. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9172 "2019-01-20T00:18:16Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Trump is a congenital liar with the ethics of a nocturnal rodent, but unfortunately, he will never go to prison. You may quote me on that. And that’s what’s wrong with our country. It seems we need another amendment SPECIFICALLY SAYING THAT THE PRESIDENT IS NOT ABOVE THE LAW. The Founding Fathers just took the obvious for granted. His worshipers apparently need to be cut off at the knees before they realize they are being driven down and not being risen up. It’s gets very tiring trying to help people that won’t give up their shovel and keep digging deeper. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9173 "2019-01-20T03:08:26Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > But then Buzzfeed comes out with some pretty hardcore damning shit, and they feel the need to throw water on it? It may not have been 100% correct, or immediately verifiable, but \*something \*in there motivated Mueller to slap back. This. Maybe a nothing burger, but Mao on a pogo stick, given there is so much smoke, categorical denials being walked back, Giuliani’s contortions, false equivalency spin, and a forensic looks at personal and Trump Inc tax returns… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9174 "2019-01-20T03:17:39Z")
I hope this isn’t a red herring. Otherwise the only thing Mueller will have on Trump is every other thing Trump’s done in the past few years. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9175 "2019-01-20T05:28:22Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > I hope this isn’t a red herring. Otherwise the only thing Mueller will have on Trump is every other thing Trump’s done in the past few years. I know, right? And that could take _decades_ to sort out. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9176 "2019-01-20T13:30:36Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > …Planting a story that gets everyone frothing at the mouth about impeachment and having that story turn out to be fake news is cleverness way above Trump’s pay grade but put enough of Trump’s monkeys in front of enough keyboards and you never know what you might get. How could they know that the story would be contested? ---
**Author:** ![MN\_Maenad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MN\_Maenad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MN_Maenad)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9177 "2019-01-20T16:16:08Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Also: > > [https://twitter.com/AlexThomasDC/status/1086295189944176640](https://twitter.com/AlexThomasDC/status/1086295189944176640) This is the thing that confuses me about the whole deal - if Buzzfeed was totally wrong, why the refusal to answer? I mean, the WH has taken the position of “repeat a lie often enough and people believe it as truth”, so why not just categorically deny it, especially if that denial is actually true? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9178 "2019-01-20T18:03:51Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > While I might prefer that he choose a second amendment exit for himself, I can see him getting a life term for his crimes. Maybe after he’s outlived his usefulness, Putin will “arrange an accident”. He already knows he can literally get away with it - anywhere in the world. But I don’t want him to get ANY deal to quietly resign and go away. NO NO NO NO! Because he won’t. He would never honor his end of the deal (ANY deal) and has had access to TOO many state secrets. We’ve already seen how quick he hands secrets to Russians, He HAS to spend the rest of his life in prison. He will always be too big a security risk. The only pragmatic, practical solution is to let him die in prison. Maybe Meuller can give him a chair and a rope. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9179 "2019-01-20T18:07:07Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > But justice did not eventually prevail against Nixon. Thanks to his preemptive resignation and Ford’s subsequent pardon, justice never even got to lay its hands on him. Which means in a way, when Nixon said “it isn’t illegal if the president does it” was kinda sorta correct. That was about election shenanigans. Now it’s about treason. Will that get a pass too? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9180 "2019-01-20T18:15:27Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Now it’s about treason. Will that get a pass too? From Republicans? For a Republican president? Of course. He’s a member of their team now. And I suspect that several other Republican leaders are already covering up their own Russian compromat or “help”. Christian Republicans have already reconciled themselves to supporting a man who is an adulterous liar, who knows nothing of the bible, and has rarely gone to church, and who espouses anti-christian thoughts just about every time he opens his mouth. There is no honour left in the party. None. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9181 "2019-01-20T20:14:52Z")
Let’s say you witness an assault with a gun, some guy you don’t know shoots some other guy you don’t know. And flees the scene. You are swift of foot and possess mad ninja skills, you can probably chase the shooter down, disarm and secure him for swift and certain justice. You do not possess any skill or training in medicine and emergency trauma procedures, but the victim still lives and need helps at once. However, if you try, the scoundrel will escape. No contest, you help the afflicted. TANJ. There ain’t no justice. Best we get is a rough approximation, based on human limits of truth and reason. Necessary, nonetheless, but crude and unreliable. What sentence would be appropriate for GeeDubya in justice for a hundred thousand innocent Iraqi citizens? What for Cheney, or even Powell? I want the truth, the whole truth. _Ecce homo_, behold the man, let him be seen for what he is. I need for my fellow citizens to see the Emperor’s shriveled Circus Peanut winkie. No, it ain’t justice, but it will do until justice comes along. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9182 "2019-01-20T20:27:20Z")
**’luci** , will you then wave? Like this? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=458) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=460)