# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 475
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9483 "2019-02-14T01:33:34Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Intentional lying… that’s the worst kind of lying! Well there’s also the Trump sort of lying, where you just let your mouth run without knowing or caring whether it’s true or not. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9484 "2019-02-14T02:45:18Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Ma, Ma, where’s my Wall? > Keeping Manafort in, ha, ha, ha! I love the Dope. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9485 "2019-02-14T02:48:31Z")
Is there any conceivable theory of the case that does not involve Manafort covering up something very, very bad? I mean, he took a huge gamble here (and lost). I can’t imagine he did that lightly and for no reason. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9486 "2019-02-14T02:50:39Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Is there any conceivable theory of the case that does not involve Manafort covering up something very, very bad? I mean, he took a huge gamble here (and lost). I can’t imagine he did that lightly and for no reason. Perhaps something scares him more than Mueller? ---
**Author:** ![Toxgoddess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Toxgoddess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxgoddess)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9487 "2019-02-14T02:53:54Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > Perhaps something scares him more than Mueller? Or someone. Maybe someone whose initals are V. Putin. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9488 "2019-02-14T03:05:33Z")
I think there’s a simpler explanation. The people in Trumpworld don’t get the meaning of “truth” and “lying.” I’ve concluded that they really don’t understand. You say what helps you in the moment, and it must therefore be true. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9489 "2019-02-14T05:52:19Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Ma, Ma, where’s my Wall? > Keeping Manafort in, ha, ha, ha! I’m **Elendil’s Heir** , and I approve of this rhyme. Nonconsecutively. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9490 "2019-02-14T06:36:30Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Is there any conceivable theory of the case that does not involve Manafort covering up something very, very bad? I mean, he took a huge gamble here (and lost). I can’t imagine he did that lightly and for no reason. \ He doesn’t want to 'fess up to the extent of his contacts with Kilimnik during the time he was [DEL]a guy who hung around and occasionally got covfefe[/DEL] CFSG’s campaign manager. Doing so would draw a great big double-ended arrow between the campaign and the Kremlin, and would also call his (Manafort’s) loyalty into question. This would jeopardize his chances of a pardon, which is looking increasingly like his only chance to avoid dying in the slammer. (Mueller almost certainly knows anything Manafort could tell him already, but the optics are the point.) \ ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9491 "2019-02-14T10:56:26Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Ma, Ma, where’s my Wall? > Keeping Manafort in, ha, ha, ha! When it comes to the Wall, many in the Trump administration will be up against it. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9492 "2019-02-14T11:11:26Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > When it comes to the Wall, many in the Trump administration will be up against it. Yeah, ISWYDT. Here’s hoping the paintballs don’t cost too much! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9493 "2019-02-14T13:02:39Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > When it comes to the Wall, many in the Trump administration will be up against it. > [@Locrian](#): > > Yeah, ISWYDT. Here’s hoping the paintballs don’t cost too much! 😉 I was thinking cigarettes and blindfolds. Okay, okay j/k. Cigarettes are bad for your health. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9494 "2019-02-14T13:37:18Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I can’t imagine he did that lightly and for no reason. Why not? This is a man who has never truly been held to account for any of the shady as fuck things he’s ever done in his life. His experience and the experience of his equally reptilian peers has been, at worst, a mild scolding for the worst offenses. It is not surprising if he simply assumed this time was no different. His behavior since his incarceration, including his ridiculous, privileged requests for the terms of his incarceration, have displayed this amply. If it has always worked for him and for all the asshats he associates with, why wouldn’t he believe he could just spout transparent lies this time as well? ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9495 "2019-02-14T13:48:17Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I think there’s a simpler explanation. > > The people in Trumpworld don’t get the meaning of “truth” and “lying.” > > I’ve concluded that they really don’t understand. You say what helps you in the moment, and it must therefore be true. Yes, this. Sometimes there isn’t much disagreement as to the factual account of what happened, it’s just that team Trump and the law have different ideas of what is right and what is wrong. Like that treasonous Trump Tower meeting, which they brush off as “Anyone would’ve taken that meeting”. Which was a big deal and I don’t understand why they haven’t nailed Trump Jr to the wall for that. Well, I kind of know why. But regardless of what happened in the room, that whole email chain was damning. And possible kompromat. The Russians always had a copy of those emails, This would have made the Trumps very vulnerable to blackmail during the time before they were publicly released. It should be taken very seriously. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9496 "2019-02-14T14:07:58Z")
They knew the meetings were considered wrong… or at least “questionable”… by law enforcement because they lied about having them on their security applications. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9497 "2019-02-14T14:54:11Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I think there’s a simpler explanation. > > The people in Trumpworld don’t get the meaning of “truth” and “lying.” > > I’ve concluded that they really don’t understand. You say what helps you in the moment, and it must therefore be true. There’s also the fact that they’re used to running two-bit real estate scams, and have now gotten in deep over their heads in the Great Game where the Russians play hardball and come charging at you sharpened-cleats-up. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9498 "2019-02-14T15:14:32Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > because they lied about having them on their security applications. Why hasn’t Jared answered for his constant lying on his security clearance forms? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9499 "2019-02-14T15:15:04Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > There’s also the fact that they’re used to running two-bit real estate scams, and have now gotten in deep over their heads in the Great Game where the Russians play hardball and come charging at you sharpened-cleats-up. Yeah. Trump really does think he’s a great deal maker and can handle the Russian mob (and government). See, it’s just like when he has his flunkeys pay off hookers (and they can’t even get that right). ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9500 "2019-02-14T15:20:45Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > Why hasn’t Jared answered for his constant lying on his security clearance forms? Who’s going to ask the question? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9501 "2019-02-14T15:41:23Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > Why hasn’t Jared answered for his constant lying on his security clearance forms? Well, the result of his investigation was a recommendation that he not get a clearance. ---
**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9502 "2019-02-14T22:17:53Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I think there’s a simpler explanation. > > The people in Trumpworld don’t get the meaning of “truth” and “lying.” > > I’ve concluded that they really don’t understand. You say what helps you in the moment, and it must therefore be true. And conversely, anyone who says something that doesn’t help them (in their twisted perception) is a liar and purveyor of **FAKE NEWS!** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=474) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=476)