# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 482
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2019, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9623 "2019-02-21T18:23:39Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > It does seem like the Mueller investigation is wrapping up, and I think it will end not with a bang but a whimper. Even as indictments are popping up all around him, Teflon Don is convinced he is without a scratch or even a grease spot. The Pubbies aren’t going to turn on him. He will go on to get elected for another four years and even the Dope will get tired of giving a shit. > > I hope I’m completely wrong. I’m with you. Should have known, since Mueller is a lifelong Republican. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2019, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9624 "2019-02-21T19:03:18Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I’m with you. Should have known, since Mueller is a lifelong Republican. I don’t believe it has anything to do with Mueller being a Republican. I think he is an honest, principled man. He might be the most honest, principled man currently at work in the government. To imply that Mueller would fail to diligently pursue the truth because the object of his inquiry is Rebpublican is to do him a grave disservice. IMHO. This is encouraging: > [@](#): > > From an opinion piece by Neal K. Katyal, an acting solicitor general under President Barack Obama > > …Of course, there is presently no open impeachment inquiry. But that could quickly change if Mr. Mueller writes a report that is anything less than a full clearing of the president: Congress would be under a constitutional obligation to investigate the facts for itself. Congress cannot be satisfied that impeachable offenses were not committed when Mr. Mueller’s investigative mandate did not cover many impeachable offenses, and when his report does not provide detailed information and answers to the few offenses that are within his mandate. This is where Mr. Mueller’s “by the book” behavior may be initially unsatisfying to Mr. Trump’s critics but ultimately more threatening to the president in the long run. > > The overlapping investigations by different entities, housed in different branches of government, spanning geography and even different governments (such as the New York attorney general’s investigation into the Trump Foundation), make it difficult for anyone, even Attorney General Barr, to end the inquiries. > > This news may be disappointing, for various reasons, to the president’s critics and supporters alike. But the ultimate result is a good one. It means the truth is likely to come out — maybe not on the timetable anyone wants, but it will. > > [NYTimes](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/21/opinion/mueller-report-trump-democrats-barr.html) > … ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2019, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9625 "2019-02-21T19:03:24Z")
Trump may be innocent by reason of total chumpitude. “Innocent” in the strictly legal sense of unproven. Nobody with the good sense that God gave a goose would have fallen for Putin’s flattery and bullshit. A category that does not include Trump. It’s not that it is difficult for Trump to believe that he’s been had, it is pretty much impossible. But! his money! Trump doesn’t own money, money owns him, he is its slave and its supplicant. Investigate his money, stack up the various and wondrous crimes and misdemeanors, and show him. Show him the accumulated fines, liens and forfeitures he would be subject to. And then, offer him a deal. “Bail, and you can keep some of your money.” He will not have to shop for his dinner at the Dollar Store. Public disgrace means nothing to him, he will simply pretend it doesn’t exist, and go for another massive support rally. At the Holiday Inn Banquet Room out on Highway 9. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2019, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9626 "2019-02-21T19:30:53Z")
I’ve been wrong about everything since 2015, and I hope this prediction is also wrong: The final Mueller report will tell us what we all pretty much already know. The Trump administration is a criminal enterprise and it worked with the Russians to help Trump get elected. The report will add clarity around who knew what, when, and it will implicate the NRA and other conservative organizations in various illegal activities. The case will be laid out in the most clear and convincing manner possible, but there will not be an email or recorded phone call between Trump and Putin where they agree to the caper using simple declarative sentences and monosyllabic words. One third of Americans will say, “See, no collusion!”. One third will say, “What the fuck is wrong with you people?”. The remaining third will say, “Man, that Duke loss already busted my bracket”. Republican senators will say, “There is nothing new here, elections have consequences, and we’re focused on fighting the real enemy, Alexandria Ocasio Cortez.” I will resume heavy drinking and murmuring apologies to my children as I tuck them in at night. ---
**Author:** ![SingleMalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/singlemalt/32/3961_2.png) [@SingleMalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleMalt)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2019, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9627 "2019-02-21T19:34:35Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > It does seem like the Mueller investigation is wrapping up, and I think it will end not with a bang but a whimper. Even as indictments are popping up all around him, Teflon Don is convinced he is without a scratch or even a grease spot. The Pubbies aren’t going to turn on him. He will go on to get elected for another four years and even the Dope will get tired of giving a shit. > > I hope I’m completely wrong. To further add to the reassurances thus far, [Jennifer Rubin’s column](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/02/21/muellers-winding-down-may-be-less-than-it-appears/?utm_term=.6e63d0a393f4) in today’s _Washington Post_ reiterates much of what I have been hearing, that the Mueller report will (well, may) focus pretty narrowly on his mandate, the question of Russian interference and possible conspiracy. All of the other stuff has been largely farmed out. From the column: “Let’s start with what will not be in the Mueller report: The findings from the Southern District of New York, which is exploring possible violation of campaign finance laws and Trump’s financial dealings. That could go on for years, and has always been a more serious concern for Trump’s inner circle. The report will also not contain the finding from any Roger Stone trial and/or plea deal, since that is being handled by the U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia, not the special counsel’s office. There could be other parts of the investigation Mueller has farmed out to other prosecutors involving Trump, his company, his foundation and his family members. That universe of legal activity will not stop even if Mueller’s part of the investigation does.” To shamelessly paraphrase a famous quote: “The Mueller report is not the end, nor even the beginning of the end. It is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.” ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2019, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9628 "2019-02-21T19:41:00Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > I’ve been wrong about everything since 2015, and I hope this prediction is also wrong: > > The final Mueller report will tell us what we all pretty much already know. The Trump administration is a criminal enterprise and it worked with the Russians to help Trump get elected. The report will add clarity around who knew what, when, and it will implicate the NRA and other conservative organizations in various illegal activities. The case will be laid out in the most clear and convincing manner possible, but there will not be an email or recorded phone call between Trump and Putin where they agree to the caper using simple declarative sentences and monosyllabic words. One third of Americans will say, “See, no collusion!”. One third will say, “What the fuck is wrong with you people?”. The remaining third will say, “Man, that Duke loss already busted my bracket”. Republican senators will say, “There is nothing new here, elections have consequences, and we’re focused on fighting the real enemy, Alexandria Ocasio Cortez.” > > I will resume heavy drinking and murmuring apologies to my children as I tuck them in at night. This sums up my thoughts as well. Well, except for the part about tucking kids in. I’m so thankful I don’t have kids facing such a grim future. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2019, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9629 "2019-02-21T20:27:18Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I don’t believe it has anything to do with Mueller being a Republican. I think he is an honest, principled man. He might be the most honest, principled man currently at work in the government. To imply that Mueller would fail to diligently pursue the truth because the object of his inquiry is Rebpublican is to do him a grave disservice. IMHO… Well said, and agreed. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9630 "2019-02-21T20:36:33Z")
I am confident that Mueller is a Lawman of the old school. Yet he has been around Washington politics long enough to be sensitive to the likelihood of political interference with Justice. As a result, I think it is very likely he has prepared for everything from pardons to political indifference. I hope it is enough to protect our democracy. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2019, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9631 "2019-02-21T20:51:19Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > Stalking doesn’t count. If you posted that because of THIS… > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > _Pfffft._ There’s a connection between ME and former Spice Girl Mel B. [I’m the guy wearing glasses, blue jeans, and a white shirt.](https://imgur.com/a/5PMBKP2) ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2019, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9632 "2019-02-21T20:51:37Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > …Investigate his money, stack up the various and wondrous crimes and misdemeanors, and show him. Show him the accumulated fines, liens and forfeitures he would be subject to. > > And then, offer him a deal. “Bail, and you can keep some of your money.” … … And after we talk him into resigning and he’s actually officially out, give him a taste of his own medicine. Break the deal (“renegotiate”) and lock him up forever. And take all his money. And lock up his crooked brats too, for good measure. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2019, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9633 "2019-02-21T20:53:29Z")
> [@SingleMalt](#): > > To further add to the reassurances thus far, [Jennifer Rubin’s column](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/02/21/muellers-winding-down-may-be-less-than-it-appears/?utm_term=.6e63d0a393f4) in today’s _Washington Post_ reiterates much of what I have been hearing, that the Mueller report will (well, may) focus pretty narrowly on his mandate, the question of Russian interference and possible conspiracy. All of the other stuff has been largely farmed out. From the column: > > “Let’s start with what will not be in the Mueller report: The findings from the Southern District of New York, which is exploring possible violation of campaign finance laws and Trump’s financial dealings. That could go on for years, and has always been a more serious concern for Trump’s inner circle. The report will also not contain the finding from any Roger Stone trial and/or plea deal, since that is being handled by the U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia, not the special counsel’s office. There could be other parts of the investigation Mueller has farmed out to other prosecutors involving Trump, his company, his foundation and his family members. That universe of legal activity will not stop even if Mueller’s part of the investigation does.” > > To shamelessly paraphrase a famous quote: “The Mueller report is not the end, nor even the beginning of the end. It is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.” It feels more like the middle of the middle to me. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2019, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9634 "2019-02-21T20:54:14Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > … I think he is an honest, principled man. He might be the most honest, principled man currently at work in the government. … I sure hope so. But who knows what Trump and all his goons are planning - starting with the new guy, Barr. I expect them to keep trying to kill the investigation, bury or whitewash the report, and do their usual crooked treasonous stuff. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2019, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9635 "2019-02-21T21:08:26Z")
As Rubin explains, at this point it wouldn’t really matter if they did. The state investigations are in full swing and out of Individual-1’s tampering reach, and the HJC Dems can always subpoena Mueller’s report, and even have the man himself or his staff testify about it. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2019, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9636 "2019-02-21T21:22:31Z")
Well, I’ve followed all this pretty closely, as some of you may be aware. Here’s what I think, FWIW: For those who don’t know, Neal Katyal was the author of the special counsel rules requiring that the SC adhere to the DOJ policy stating that a sitting president cannot be indicted. He’s aware of where exceptions to this policy could be made and has said as much. I’m disheartened to see comments indicating a belief that Mueller’s political persuasion is a factor. For anyone involved in regular law enforcement/practice, they above all should know that this is not the norm. Over my career, I knew hundreds of LEOs, lawyers, judges, court personnel, etc. Unless such a person was running for office, I never knew – or cared – about their political affiliations. One could generally assume that the cop types leaned more conservative, but they didn’t do their jobs with this in mind. Public defenders leaned liberal, prosecutors leaned conservative, but again, none brought their personal views into how they practiced law. There is just no way that Mueller, a true truth-and-justice believer and demigod within the DOJ/FBI, is the guy who tramples all over the rule of law. He just isn’t. He’s the very embodiment of it. Re William Barr, he sure looks the villain part, doesn’t he? And all those pardons for Iran Contra violations don’t inspire confidence. But with that said… Barr served Bush the Greater, not the Lesser, and as has been pointed out, Bush the Greater folks are appalled by Trump. Barr and Mueller are indeed long-term fellow travelers who know each other well and remain close. Many experienced DOJ/US Attorney types have confidence in Barr and regard him as a “good” AG in the time he was in the job. All of them characterize him as an “institutionalist.” For our purposes, this is a good thing. I can think of no good reason why a man, comfortably retired and out of harm’s way with respect to public opinion, would abandon that retirement to become the country’s most infamous villain by attempting to stifle the results of Mueller’s probe – an effort doomed to fail under any circumstances. However, I can think of reasons why he might do it to become the country’s most celebrated hero by protecting Mueller’s findings. Experienced legal talking heads repeatedly characterized Barr’s love song memo to Trump as something a first-year law student could have ripped to shreds, it was rested on such specious reasoning. Perhaps Barr turned Trump’s own ignorance and corruption against him, dangling an AG option in front of Trump he was unable to ignore. Mueller himself telegraphed the approaching end of his role in the investigation a couple of months ago, when he released some of his top people back to their regular lives. Rod Rosenstein also telegraphed the approaching end of his own role in the investigation about the same time, when he made it clear he would not leave until he had seen the thing through to a report – and simultaneously advised he expected to depart sometime between mid-February and mid-March. All seems to be on schedule. I am of the persuasion that Mueller was more waiting for Barr to assume control than that Barr is now systematically shutting down the investigation. Rosenstein could never see the thing through to its full conclusion, because Rosenstein is a material witness to part of the obstruction component of the investigation. (He did run this concern by the ethics guys and was green-lighted to oversee it at its inception.) In some respects, Trump screwed himself by firing Sessions, because it opened up the opportunity for a Barr. He’s probably the best we can hope for at this point. I also think it is very much Mueller’s style to spread the actual prosecutions around and let them proceed as they will, rather than to try and see it all through on his own. In doing this, he prevents the investigation from being smothered by those with an interest to do so. And he force-multiplies his prosecutions. We know he has spread his seeds (as it were) among US attorneys’ offices in SDNY, Eastern District of Virginia, DC District, the District of South Dakota and possibly Eastern District of California. I am sure there are others. So… as was once said by Omar Little, “You come at the King, you best not miss.” One way or another, Mueller won’t miss. TL;DR: Take heart. (Or of course I could be completely full of shit. Hope not, though.) ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2019, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9637 "2019-02-21T21:26:33Z")
Roger Stone appeared before his targeted judge today. [https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/rogert-stone-hearing-instagram](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/rogert-stone-hearing-instagram) She issued a full gag order on him. > **[Judge broadens gag order against Roger Stone after Instagram post](https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/21/roger-stone-gag-order-1179548)** > > Stone was trying to walk back an Instagram post appeared to include a gun’s crosshairs above the head of the federal judge overseeing his case. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2019, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9638 "2019-02-21T21:35:59Z")
What! Outrage! She violated his freedom from consequences of his speech! As guaranteed in the Republican version of the 1st amendment! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2019, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9639 "2019-02-21T22:21:16Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > … And after we talk him into resigning and he’s actually officially out, give him a taste of his own medicine. Break the deal (“renegotiate”) and lock him up forever. And take all his money. And lock up his crooked brats too, for good measure. Only a mean-spirited and sardonic person would take pleasure at such a prospect. Perhaps then you should come over here and sit with the rest of us. ETA: I did say “some”. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2019, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9640 "2019-02-21T23:21:19Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > …TL;DR: Take heart. Thank you for (as always) being the informed voice of reason. I did read, BTW. But you knew that. 😉 > [@](#): > > (Or of course I could be completely full of shit. Hope not, though.) No! No! _\_ ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2019, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9641 "2019-02-22T04:50:00Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Roger Stone appeared before his targeted judge today. > [Judge Bans Stone From Commenting On Case After Bonkers Hearing On Instagram Post - TPM – Talking Points Memo](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/rogert-stone-hearing-instagram) > > She issued a full gag order on him. > [https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/21/roger-stone-gag-order-1179548](https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/21/roger-stone-gag-order-1179548) What a maroon. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2019, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9642 "2019-02-22T05:15:10Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > …She issued a full gag order on him. > [https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/21/roger-stone-gag-order-1179548](https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/21/roger-stone-gag-order-1179548) My two favorite bits: The judge telling Stone, “You appear to need clear boundaries. So there they are." And the sign held by someone outside the courthouse that read, “This is a sign.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=481) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=483)