# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 487
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9723 "2019-02-26T22:28:34Z")
> [@aurora\_maire](#): > > Just a congressman intimidating a witness. Or another Tuesday in Trump world. > > [https://twitter.com/mattgaetz/status/1100503846386835456?ref\_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1100503846386835456&ref\_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforumserver.twoplustwo.com%2F41%2Fpolitics%2Fpresidency-donald-j-trump-state-emergency-1731987%2Findex365.html](https://twitter.com/mattgaetz/status/1100503846386835456?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1100503846386835456&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforumserver.twoplustwo.com%2F41%2Fpolitics%2Fpresidency-donald-j-trump-state-emergency-1731987%2Findex365.html) > > We really need to come up with new words because scumbag, asshole, etc. are just not enough any more for these folks. I was just slack-jawed dumbfounded when I saw this. I wonder if the honourable (hah!) gentleman has forgotten that he’s in the minority now, and there might actually be consequences for thuggish behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9724 "2019-02-26T23:37:16Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > I was just slack-jawed dumbfounded when I saw this. I wonder if the honourable (hah!) gentleman has forgotten that he’s in the minority now, and there might actually be consequences for thuggish behavior. I think _he_ thinks his high cheekbones and pointy chin will protect him. _I_ think his pointy chin is a nice target, and wonder what it would take to get Buzz Aldrin mad at him. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9725 "2019-02-26T23:50:08Z")
In other news, the US Court of Appeals for the DC Circuit has [ruled](https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/26/politics/appeals-court-mueller-miller/index.html) (surprising no one) that Roger Stone buddy Andrew Miller must comply with a grand jury subpoena and testify or face contempt and go directly to jail. Miller had been trying the same “Mueller is not a _real_ prosecutor!” schtick that didn’t work for Manafort, and didn’t work for several dumbass trolls a hunnert pages or so back in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9726 "2019-02-27T00:07:28Z")
> [@aurora\_maire](#): > > Just a congressman intimidating a witness. Or another Tuesday in Trump world. > > [https://twitter.com/mattgaetz/status/1100503846386835456?ref\_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1100503846386835456&ref\_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforumserver.twoplustwo.com%2F41%2Fpolitics%2Fpresidency-donald-j-trump-state-emergency-1731987%2Findex365.html](https://twitter.com/mattgaetz/status/1100503846386835456?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1100503846386835456&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforumserver.twoplustwo.com%2F41%2Fpolitics%2Fpresidency-donald-j-trump-state-emergency-1731987%2Findex365.html) > > We really need to come up with new words because scumbag, asshole, etc. are just not enough any more for these folks. [Speaker Pelosi’s Twitter response.](https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/status/1098378159685337090) > [@](#): > > Michael Cohen will come before the @OversightDems & @HouseIntel Committees next week. Congress has an independent duty under the Constitution to conduct oversight of the Executive Branch, and any efforts to intimidate family members or pressure witnesses will not be tolerated. [There’s also this statement from her office.](https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/status/1100545912697511938) Additionally, [Cohen’s testimony has been rescheduled.](https://oversight.house.gov/news/press-releases/committee-announces-rescheduling-of-michael-cohen-s-public-testimony) I suspect to make time for any action against Gaetz that may be contemplated… ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9727 "2019-02-27T00:19:47Z")
> [@galen\_ubal](#): > > [Speaker Pelosi’s Twitter response.](https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/status/1098378159685337090) > > [There’s also this statement from her office.](https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/status/1100545912697511938) > Additionally, [Cohen’s testimony has been rescheduled.](https://oversight.house.gov/news/press-releases/committee-announces-rescheduling-of-michael-cohen-s-public-testimony) I suspect to make time for any action against Gaetz that may be contemplated… That rescheduling took place before Gaetz’s comments. ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9728 "2019-02-27T00:53:12Z")
> [@galen\_ubal](#): > > [Speaker Pelosi’s Twitter response.](https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/status/1098378159685337090) > > [There’s also this statement from her office.](https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/status/1100545912697511938) > Additionally, [Cohen’s testimony has been rescheduled.](https://oversight.house.gov/news/press-releases/committee-announces-rescheduling-of-michael-cohen-s-public-testimony) I suspect to make time for any action against Gaetz that may be contemplated… > [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > That rescheduling took place before Gaetz’s comments. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![romansperson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/romansperson/32/17100_2.png) [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9729 "2019-02-27T01:42:13Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > I was just slack-jawed dumbfounded when I saw this. I wonder if the honourable (hah!) gentleman has forgotten that he’s in the minority now, and there might actually be consequences for thuggish behavior. Never mind ‘being in the minority,’ this is way beyond the line for _any_ sitting member of Congress. I feel like I’m back in 1970s Cleveland now, just with new technology. [From Politico](https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/26/matt-gaetz-michael-cohen-1189581): > [@](#): > > Cohen’s lawyer, Lanny Davis, called Gaetz’s remarks “despicable.” > > “We will not respond to Mr. Gaetz’s despicable lies and personal smears, except to say we trust that his colleagues in the House, both Republicans and Democrats, will repudiate his words and his conduct,” Davis said in a statement. "I also trust that his constituents will not appreciate that their congressman has set a new low — which in today’s political culture is hard to imagine.” > > Gaetz shot back when reporters asked about the tweet: “This isn’t witness tampering, it’s witness testing.” JFC, what is wrong with this guy? Can we now expect members of Congress to be nothing more than Internet trolls? ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9730 "2019-02-27T03:08:20Z")
In addition to being a despicable troll, Gaetz doesn’t seem to understand how blackmail works. I’m pretty sure the idea is to threaten to release damaging information, not just to release it at the outset. Once you’ve told the world that Cohen is a philanderer, what’s left to blackmail him with? You’ve already published and been damned by your own big stupid mouth. Anyway, tomorrow is going to be nuts. The President’s personal lawyer, and former RNC finance chair is going to testify in Congress, with receipts, that the President is a crook. And most of us are just kind of like “Yeah, this is a normal thing that happens.” ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9731 "2019-02-27T04:58:51Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > In addition to being a despicable troll, Gaetz doesn’t seem to understand how blackmail works. I’m pretty sure the idea is to threaten to release damaging information, not just to release it at the outset. Once you’ve told the world that Cohen is a philanderer, what’s left to blackmail him with? You’ve already published and been damned by your own big stupid mouth. Republicans have demonstrated some serious failure of reason. We have a very long thread on the subject that is coming up on the 10th anniversary of its OP. The only way Gaetz’ tweet might be something would be if it was a taste of we have much worse. Based on the history Republican thought patterns, though, probably not. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9732 "2019-02-27T05:01:44Z")
Gaetz ought, at the very least, to be censured by the House. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9733 "2019-02-27T05:33:05Z")
Cohen’s prepared testimony has been released. Fun bits: - Cohen says Trump directed the Moscow/Trump negotiations throughout the campaign and lied about it because a) 100s of millions were involved and b) he didn’t think he was gonna win. - Cohen says, re: June 2016 Trump Tower meeting, Don Jr. told Trump that it was set up; whether Don Jr. would’ve set the meeting up himself, Cohen says that Trump says “Don Jr. has the worst judgment of anyone I know” and therefore Trump never let him set up meetings of that importance. LOL. Poor little Donny. Ouchies. No amount of beard hair can make up for that level of emasculation. - Cohen has check from Trump _while president_ paying Cohen back for the Stormy Daniels payoff. - Alleges Stone called Trump to let him know that Assange had just told him about the upcoming wikileaks dump of stolen DNC emails; Trump said “wouldn’t that be great?” - Cohen gave 3 years of financial statements as documentation; said Trump inflated his assets to press/media, while deflating his wealth for tax purposes. - Trump directed Cohen to find a “straw bidder” to make sure a portrait of Donald Trump was the highest object at a charitable auction, for which Trump paid the fake bidder from his charitable organization. (Has docs for this too.) The painting is at one of Trump’s clubs. - Petty but what the heck: Trump had Cohen threaten Trump’s high school, college(s) and the College Board not to release info about Trump’s grades or S.A.T. scores. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9734 "2019-02-27T05:57:23Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Cohen’s prepared testimony has been released. Aye; here’s a link: [https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/636-michael-cohens-congressional-t/3a1530b333230e775df5/optimized/full.pdf#page=1](https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/636-michael-cohens-congressional-t/3a1530b333230e775df5/optimized/full.pdf#page=1) ETA: A choice bit: > [@Michael Cohen](#): > > Mr. Trump is an enigma. He is complicated, as am I. He has both good and bad, as do we all. But the bad far outweighs the good, and since taking office, he has become the worst version of himself. He is capable of behaving kindly, but he is not kind. He is capable of committing acts of generosity, but he is not generous. He is capable of being loyal, but he is fundamentally disloyal. > 8 > Donald Trump is a man who ran for office to make his brand great, not to make our country great. He had no desire or intention to lead this nation – only to market himself and to build his wealth and power. Mr. Trump would often say, this campaign was going to be the “greatest infomercial in political history.” ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9735 "2019-02-27T07:40:53Z")
“He is capable of behaving kindly, but he is not kind.” Isn’t that a major part of psychopathy? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9736 "2019-02-27T10:16:05Z")
I’ve seen too many footballs yanked away at the last minute to believe that Cohen is going to give that statement but if he does actually give it as written under oath - and provides the documentation referred to - we might be nearing the tipping point for Trump. Especially if the Committee invites the President to come give his response under oath as well. Funnily enough, the stuff most likely to set Trump off - again, assuming this is the statement Cohen gives - are the things that aren’t illegal, like suggesting that he lies about his worth and his grades. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9737 "2019-02-27T10:55:24Z")
I am really not too excited about this. Cohen is a sleaze that’ll do anything for the buck. He’s lied for Trump for years. He lied to congress. He’s got a plea deal. He’s covering his own ass more than he’s saying about Trump. He says Trump’s a bad man who isn’t kind or generous. Big whoop. I knew this in the 1990s. However, the Wikileaks, Moscow Tower and dopey Junior’s mistakes could lead to an impeachment or a trial. Then we hopefully get to his last 30 years of fraud. I really hope he has more documents than words. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9738 "2019-02-27T11:10:20Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > He’s got a plea deal. He does? ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9739 "2019-02-27T11:26:21Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > He does? Or he had one and muffed it up by lying to congress. I thought there was a plea deal for him before all that. I could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9740 "2019-02-27T13:56:30Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > I am really not too excited about this. Cohen is a sleaze that’ll do anything for the buck. He’s lied for Trump for years. He lied to congress. He’s got a plea deal. He’s covering his own ass more than he’s saying about Trump. He says Trump’s a bad man who isn’t kind or generous. Big whoop. I knew this in the 1990s. > > However, the Wikileaks, Moscow Tower and dopey Junior’s mistakes could lead to an impeachment or a trial. Then we hopefully get to his last 30 years of fraud. I really hope he has more documents than words. He already has his plea deal, so his only incentive is to tell the truth. The only thing that could get him into more trouble would be lying. Also, he’s bringing evidence. The Trump signed check to reimburse the Stormy Daniels payment is already out there. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9741 "2019-02-27T14:09:17Z")
I wonder how much Mueller’s team prepped him in terms of what he could or could not say? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9742 "2019-02-27T14:20:53Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I wonder how much Mueller’s team prepped him in terms of what he could or could not say? Is there not going to be an FBI lawyer sitting right next to him? I seem to remember that from previous witnesses… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=486) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=488)