# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 496
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9903 "2019-03-08T02:16:52Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > A month shy of four years in a Club Fed. Not exactly Shawshank, I’ll bet. Hopefully, the sentence on violating his plea agreement will add a couple of years and be done consecutively. > > Still, even the Watergate Seven didn’t do _that_ much time… Not a federal “poumd me in the ass” prison? Damn. ETA - Joking, I wouldn’t wish that on anyone ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9904 "2019-03-08T02:25:02Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > So it’s Friday tomorrow. Will it be a… #MuellerFriday? > > Don Jr must find it hard to get to sleep every Thursday night knowing that he may get woken up by a knock at the door before even his alarm goes off. He’s certainly been busy today on Twitter lashing out at the world. > > Did anyone see John Brennan [talking a day or so ago](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1BSmwJb6gs&feature=youtu.be&t=337)? He thought that there might be indictments coming tomorrow. Being a man of wide knowledge, he also said that he didn’t think indictments would occur next week as that would coincide with the Ides of March (15th of March). That was an interesting thing to bring up as the analogy is clear - Julius Caesar was assassinated on that day in 44 BC after attempting to assume greater power for himself and because of his increasing monarchical behaviour, having been declared _dictator perpetuo_ (“dictator in perpetuity”) just weeks previously. His assassins were mostly senators who feared that Caesar would end the Roman Republic, something that had existed for nearly half a millennium, and restore the monarchy with Caesar as king. So the Ides of March might not be an auspicious time for indictments. I did see Brennan’s commentary and I put a lot of store by what he knows/says. I hope his information is accurate and want to believe tomorrow will be a meaningful, important day in our history. Or failing that, very, very soon. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9905 "2019-03-08T02:36:54Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I did see Brennan’s commentary and I put a lot of store by what he knows/says. I hope his information is accurate and want to believe tomorrow will be a meaningful, important day in our history. Or failing that, very, very soon. With Rod Rosenstein leaving his post in mid-March (having said that he’d be staying until the Mueller report was delivered), along with everything happening on Fridays, and the Ides of March, means that the tea leaves suggest tomorrow could be a big day. Brennan says in the clip that he thinks these will be the final indictments and delivery of the report. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9906 "2019-03-08T02:46:26Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > Serious question - would it be illegal to call Judge Ellis’s chamber and leave a message calling him a major prick of a douchelord? I know he is (or was) under Federal Marshall protection for a previous threat but I wouldn’t threaten him. Yes I really want to do this and prob wouldnt care if the FBI knocked on my door. [Edited out phone number] [Moderator Note] The Registration Agreement prohibits harassment or promotion of a cause. On this basis, I have edited out the phone number you posted. Do not post such messages again. Colibri Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9907 "2019-03-08T03:24:03Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > With Rod Rosenstein leaving his post in mid-March (having said that he’d be staying until the Mueller report was delivered), along with everything happening on Fridays, and the Ides of March, means that the tea leaves suggest tomorrow could be a big day. Brennan says in the clip that he thinks these will be the final indictments and delivery of the report. :eek: I, too, took Rosenstein’s impending departure as a bread crumb that Mueller’s part of the investigation may be coming to an end. Which is far from saying the totality of the investigation is over – far from it, I think. Personally, I have never doubted that Mueller has the conspiracy aspect of the investigation nailed down, with or without Manafort. The obstruction aspect has occurred every single day in full view of the public, so that part is comparatively easy. I’ve been waiting for the “big day” for quite some time. Tomorrow is a pretty good guess. Based on the tea leaves and as the magic 8-Ball might say, “Signs point to yes.” Good god, I hope so. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9908 "2019-03-08T03:38:41Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Which is far from saying the totality of the investigation is over – far from it, I think. “Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.” ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9909 "2019-03-08T05:21:26Z")
Trump had that whole thing about the bust of Churchill in the Oval Office, so that’s cool. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9910 "2019-03-08T12:33:02Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > He’s still got another sentencing hearing in DC to content with. And the possibility that he’ll be re-tried on his mistrial charges as a result of breaking his plea agreement. > [@Aspenglow](#): > > I think the only hope at this point is that Manafort has state charges that are already in place to be unsealed in the event that he skates on the federal charges – whether by Judge Corrupt Squirrel and/or pardon by Trump – that are beyond Trump’s pardon power. > > Just now, however, I feel sick. I suspect - or at least hope - that Judge Jackson will be less lenient. There exists the potential for concurrent sentences, I suppose, but we’ll see. And aren’t SDNY sitting on a pile of potential Manafort charges? I assumed they were waiting to see how the Virginia and DC cases panned out as there’s no point charging a 70-year-old man already facing a fifteen-year sentence. But if four years is all he gets? One suspects NY will start the wheels turning on their case. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9911 "2019-03-08T12:41:56Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > But he found Jesus. So that’s good for knocking 16 years off. Coming into court in a wheelchair was good for a few more. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9912 "2019-03-08T13:22:08Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > A month shy of four years in a Club Fed. Not exactly Shawshank, I’ll bet. Hopefully, the sentence on violating his plea agreement will add a couple of years and be done consecutively. > > Still, even the Watergate Seven didn’t do _that_ much time… Ah justice in this country. It is anything but. For comparison remember the black, poor woman in Texas who was sentenced to[five years in prison for voting while on probation](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/13/us/texas-woman-voter-fraud.html)? Then you have the white, multimillionaire who committed two counts of bank fraud, five counts of tax fraud and one count of failing to declare a foreign bank account and gets a little shy of four years in prison despite sentencing guidelines calling for 20+ years. So much justice… ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9913 "2019-03-08T14:21:50Z")
The take I saw a few times online, that I think I mostly agree with, is: four years in prison is not nothing, but we’re so accustomed in the US to seeing people get life-destroying sentences for minor things, that four years sounds like a free ride. We shouldn’t sentence white collar criminals the same as we sentence other criminals. We should sentence everyone the way we sentence white collar criminals. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9914 "2019-03-08T14:35:36Z")
Could the judge be auditioning for the Supreme Court? What an ass. Back to Mueller, I find it hard to believe he’d avoid a March 15 conclusion just because of the Ides of March thing. I do believe the Don Jr, Ivanka, and Jared are going to be indicted as Mueller’s last act because surely Don Sr will fire him, consequences be damned. I for one can’t wait to see Ivanka rock her orange jumpsuit with designer heels. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9915 "2019-03-08T14:48:54Z")
> [@Decisive Indifference](#): > > We shouldn’t sentence white collar criminals the same as we sentence other criminals. We should sentence everyone the way we sentence white collar criminals. I dunno. A burglar steals from at most a couple dozen people taking – what – five figures worth of stuff while a fraudster steals millions of dollars from thousands of people, a life-changing impact. The punishment should be commensurate and I say this as someone who had been burgled. Now, someone who physically injures a person or threatens with a weapon (never mind using one) deserves to be put away a long, long time. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9916 "2019-03-08T14:55:18Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > The important thing here is “Convicted Felon”. It does suck about the sentence, but even if it was the max “president” Bastard is likely to pardon him. He’s a convicted felon now, and thay can never take that away from him. 🙂 > Peace. Well, a pardon would take that away, right? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9917 "2019-03-08T15:01:10Z")
I plead ignorance. I thought that a pardon recipient had to admit guilt, but I sure can be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9918 "2019-03-08T15:04:36Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Could the judge be auditioning for the Supreme Court? What an ass. > > \<…\> If he weren’t in his late 70s I might be inclined to agree. OTOH, several of the talking heads I heard last night indicated that the judge tends to go easy on white collar crimes (one of them cited a case where the perp got seven months). I imagine there are people going through his history with the proverbial fine tooth comb to see if Manafort’s sentence is out of line with similar cases; absent such evidence I’m hesitant to ascribe an ulterior motive aside for his distaste for special prosecutors, which was obvious at several points during the trial. Doesn’t make him any less of an ass. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9919 "2019-03-08T15:07:07Z")
47 months, 47 years, doesn’t matter. With the upcoming sentencing, and the possibility of state charges, this guy will die in prison. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9920 "2019-03-08T15:09:04Z")
Ellis is getting a hard time from a lot of people, and unfairly, in my view. He has a point that Manafort deserves leniency as a first-time offender (this being the first time he ever committed fraud on a massive scale over a span of many years) with no criminal history (up until the point where he was finally caught) who has led an otherwise blameless life (aside from these and all the other crimes he committed). Add to that the fact that he’s elderly (nearing the end of his long life as an unrepentant career criminal who got off scot-free for decades) with health problems (cry me a fuckin’ geyser) and it’s clear that Ellis made the right call. This is a great day for justice, and I’ve never been more proud to be an American. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9921 "2019-03-08T15:14:24Z")
Manaforts sentence seems entirely reasonable. The examples cites in opposition only make me feel that the United States needs to stop having such draconian laws, not tha5 Manafort should be sent down for longer. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9922 "2019-03-08T15:19:02Z")
Part of the outrage is about the judge stating that Manafort lived a “blameless life”. [Not even his children are that stupid.](https://www.businessinsider.com/paul-manafort-daughter-text-messages-ukraine-2017-3) > [@Manafort's daughter to another daughter](#): > > Dad has “no moral or legal compass.” > > “Don’t fool yourself, you know he has killed people in Ukraine? Knowingly,” > > “As a tactic to outrage the world and get focus on Ukraine. Remember when there were all those deaths taking place. A while back. About a year ago. Revolts and what not. Do you know whose strategy that was to cause that, to send those people out and get them slaughtered.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=495) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=497)