# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 499
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2019, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9963 "2019-03-11T15:44:08Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > [D]ue the Trump’s potential abuse of pardon power and his tiny sticky fingers on the nuclear codes, this is a brand new type of prosecution. It is huge and complicated, with many different threads to follow. > > I understand people’s charm with using John Oliver’s term of “stupid Watergate,” but to me, it is a huge disservice to our country to do so. It egregiously understates the immensity of what has occurred. The leader of an adverse foreign power chose our president. Mueller must tread carefully in the approach he takes. No one has ever had to do this before. I understand your frustration at how long it has taken, but some things just have to take their own time. I think this is such a one. But he’ll get there, I am sure of it. Nothing has ever been more important. It’s kind of like you have a malignant tumor in your brain, one of those ones with tendrils embedded everywhere, not looking like a pebble. Sure, you want to get rid of it, but you don’t want the surgeon to pop the top of your skull off and start laying about with a hatchet, either. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2019, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9964 "2019-03-11T17:19:28Z")
[Latest news from the Spectator](https://spectator.us/mueller-barr-battle-indict-trump/), based on reports from people who talked to “people in the room” is that Mueller is recommending indictments for Eric, Don Jr, Ivanka, and Jared for financial crimes, and Trump himself for obstruction of justice. Barr supposedly has agreed to indicting the kids but is balking at the president. This disagreement was the reason the report wasn’t released Friday. Take it for what it’s worth, third-hand news but from a usually reputable source. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2019, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9965 "2019-03-11T17:28:54Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > [Latest news from the Spectator](https://spectator.us/mueller-barr-battle-indict-trump/), based on reports from people who talked to “people in the room” is that Mueller is recommending indictments for Eric, Don Jr, Ivanka, and Jared for financial crimes, and Trump himself for obstruction of justice. Barr supposedly has agreed to indicting the kids but is balking at the president. This disagreement was the reason the report wasn’t released Friday. > > Take it for what it’s worth, third-hand news but from a usually reputable source. I can’t open that link. Can you cut and paste relevant parts of the article? If true, obviously this would be about as bad as possible for Trump and co. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2019, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9966 "2019-03-11T17:33:29Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I can’t open that link. Can you cut and paste relevant parts of the article? If true, obviously this would be about as bad as possible for Trump and co. I can open the link. > [@](#): > > Several sources tell Cockburn that the Special Counsel has indeed completed his report. It is said to recommend indicting three of President Trump’s children – Don junior, Ivanka and Eric – as well as his son-in-law, Jared Kushner. The Attorney General, William Barr, is said to have ‘silently assented’ to this. It’s also claimed that Mueller wants President Trump himself to be indicted. Barr is said to oppose this. The two men met on Friday but apparently could not agree and this was the reason for the delay in any announcement from the DoJ. At least this is what the sources say… > > None of Cockburn’s sources was ‘in the room’ – as they say in Washington – for the (alleged) discussions between Mueller and Barr and their two staffs. And none of the sources was briefed by the people ‘in the room’. But they did talk to the people briefed by the people in the room and – twice removed from the original conversations – they all give the same account. It is that the older Trump children and Jared will be indicted for financial crimes while Mueller wants to charge Trump with obstruction of justice. The charges, Cockburn is told now, will not be about ‘Russia collusion’. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2019, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9967 "2019-03-11T17:36:25Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I can open the link. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9968 "2019-03-11T18:05:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I can’t open that link. Can you cut and paste relevant parts of the article? If true, obviously this would be about as bad as possible for Trump and co. I’m skeptical, Mueller would know it’s not his job to argue for indicting anyone in particular. He presents the evidence to the AG and the AG makes the decision. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2019, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9969 "2019-03-11T18:11:11Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > I’m skeptical, Mueller would know it’s not his job to argue for indicting anyone in particular. He presents the evidence to the AG and the AG makes the decision. Also, I think that anyone who claims to know what Mueller is going to do… well… _doesn’t know_. Mueller doesn’t leak. Although I love thinking about all those indictments. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2019, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9970 "2019-03-11T20:10:42Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > [Yeah, pretty sure](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/14/nyregion/trump-foundation-lawsuit-attorney-general.html). (NY Times) > [@NYT](#): > > The attorney general’s office is seeking the Trump Foundation to pay $2.8 million in restitution, the amount raised for the foundation at a 2016 Iowa political fund-raiser. Shouldn’t there be some punitive damages in there? I mean, this is like “yeah, you embezzled a bunch of money - just pay it back and we’ll call it quits” ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2019, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9971 "2019-03-11T20:39:55Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Also, I think that anyone who claims to know what Mueller is going to do… well… _doesn’t know_. Mueller doesn’t leak. Although I love thinking about all those indictments. 🙂 But, if he is actually in conversations with DOJ and the AG, then it is no longer just Mueller not leaking - and we know this White House makes a sieve look like the Grand Coulee dam. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2019, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9972 "2019-03-11T21:34:31Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > Take it for what it’s worth, third-hand news but from a usually reputable source. Although its a usually reputable source that spends half the article explaining how speculative all this is. Having had so many false alarms I’m going to not going to give anything a whole lot of credence unless it comes from Mr. Mueller himself. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2019, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9973 "2019-03-11T21:36:05Z")
> [@](#): > > The charges, Cockburn is told now, will not be about ‘Russia collusion’. Not too surprising. It was always going to be difficult to prove, even if true. And, despite CNN and Trump’s own statements, it was always a lower priority than determining whether he was compromised in some way - and that’s even harder to prove. But, if Trump and his family are indicted for financial crimes, it’s a lot more reasonable to believe that Trump _was/is_ compromised in some way - though whether that came into play before or after the election would still be a bit of a mystery. It’s worth remembering, though, that Mueller likely still has a second investigation going on Trump, Saudi Arabia, and Israel and their interactions before the election. > [@steronz](#): > > I’m skeptical, Mueller would know it’s not his job to argue for indicting anyone in particular. He presents the evidence to the AG and the AG makes the decision. Publicly, yes. In practical terms, though, lobbying your boss for a particular outcome (in private) isn’t a completely unthinkable thing and pretty well falls under the heading of “delivering his report”. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2019, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9974 "2019-03-11T21:56:36Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > It’s kind of like you have a malignant tumor in your brain, one of those ones with tendrils embedded everywhere, not looking like a pebble. Sure, you want to get rid of it, but you don’t want the surgeon to pop the top of your skull off and start laying about with a hatchet, either. An exquisite analogy. 🙂 It does make sense that you don’t want to kill off the whole body as you excise the tumor. I suppose it is going to be all but impossible to scalpel out all the embedded tendrils. One thing at a time. I expect the country will live with the repercussions of this “surgery” long past my lifetime. > [@steronz](#): > > I’m skeptical, Mueller would know it’s not his job to argue for indicting anyone in particular. He presents the evidence to the AG and the AG makes the decision. I believe it _would_ be his job to argue for an exception to the DOJ policy that prohibits indictment of a sitting president in the face of overwhelming evidence of criminal wrong-doing. > [@Aspidistra](#): > > Shouldn’t there be some punitive damages in there? I mean, this is like “yeah, you embezzled a bunch of money - just pay it back and we’ll call it quits” ☹ The important part of the article was the fact that the NY AG had identified potential criminal behavior and had referred the matters to other agencies to pursue. They will also themselves pursue any criminal activities they uncover, beyond just fines. The civil lawsuit they filed against the Trump Foundation was just for openers, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2019, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9975 "2019-03-12T04:14:14Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > I’m skeptical, Mueller would know it’s not his job to argue for indicting anyone in particular. He presents the evidence to the AG and the AG makes the decision. Wouldn’t it be within his purview to make a recommendation to the AG? ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2019, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9976 "2019-03-12T09:27:32Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Wouldn’t it be within his purview to make a recommendation to the AG? This is what I thought. Any evidence found against Trumpy Wumpy Family would still be within grounds to file indictments. No? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2019, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9977 "2019-03-12T10:42:14Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > [Latest news from the Spectator](https://spectator.us/mueller-barr-battle-indict-trump/), based on reports from people who talked to “people in the room” is that Mueller is recommending indictments for Eric, Don Jr, Ivanka, and Jared for financial crimes, and Trump himself for obstruction of justice. Barr supposedly has agreed to indicting the kids but is balking at the president. This disagreement was the reason the report wasn’t released Friday. > > Take it for what it’s worth, third-hand news but from a usually reputable source. Assuming this is true, one wonders to what extent the “financial crimes” have state-level crimes attached to them, in the event Daddy hands out pardons for Christmas/Hanukkah. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2019, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9978 "2019-03-12T13:17:18Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > An exquisite analogy. 🙂 It does make sense that you don’t want to kill off the whole body as you excise the tumor. I suppose it is going to be all but impossible to scalpel out all the embedded tendrils. One thing at a time. I expect the country will live with the repercussions of this “surgery” long past my lifetime. Thank you for the complement. A couple days ago David Pakman was trying to estimate how long before the US got its reputation back after Trump left office and came up with two to five years. I found this laughably short and figure ten years _minimum_, and more likely not until all the world leaders and diplomats who are laughing at Trump now are not only retired, but dead. And that was just considering our reputation, not other long term damage such as climate change and judge appointments – not only SCOTUS but also all those other ones you never hear about. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2019, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9979 "2019-03-12T13:19:34Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Wouldn’t it be within his purview to make a recommendation to the AG? Yeah, but there’s something in the language of the what TroutMan posted that doesn’t sound like a career FBI man. “The two men met on Friday but apparently could not agree and this was the reason for the delay in any announcement from the DoJ.” Why would they need to agree? Mueller can want what he wants but at the end of the day he knows that it’s not his job to question his boss. I dunno, as always, we’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2019, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9980 "2019-03-12T13:41:55Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Thank you for the complement. A couple days ago David Pakman was trying to estimate how long before the US got its reputation back after Trump left office and came up with two to five years. I found this laughably short and figure ten years _minimum_, and more likely not until all the world leaders and diplomats who are laughing at Trump now are not only retired, but dead. > > And that was just considering our reputation, not other long term damage such as climate change and judge appointments – not only SCOTUS but also all those other ones you never hear about. I’m a US citizen. The way I’ll start respecting this country again is if Trump is held accountable for his crimes. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2019, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9981 "2019-03-12T15:17:29Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Wouldn’t it be within his purview to make a recommendation to the AG? Yes, I believe so. And could even seek indictments on his own, I thought, although given the stakes I’m sure he’d rather have the AG on board. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2019, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/9982 "2019-03-13T01:42:10Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > [Latest news from the Spectator](https://spectator.us/mueller-barr-battle-indict-trump/), based on reports from people who talked to “people in the room” is that Mueller is recommending indictments for Eric, Don Jr, Ivanka, and Jared for financial crimes, and Trump himself for obstruction of justice. Barr supposedly has agreed to indicting the kids but is balking at the president. This disagreement was the reason the report wasn’t released Friday. > > Take it for what it’s worth, third-hand news but from a usually reputable source. Cockburn is poorly-sourced (if it’s sourced at all) nonsense/gossip. I would like to see this from a reputable source, but AFAICT none have it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=498) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=500)