# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 502
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10023 "2019-03-14T14:35:33Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > His pardon of Joe Arpaio was widely seen as payback for the ex-sheriff’s high-profile support in the 2016 campaign. But I see it less as doing Arpaio a favor, and more of playing to his base. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10024 "2019-03-14T14:41:13Z")
[More Tea leaves](https://www.npr.org/2019/03/14/703108073/top-mueller-prosecutor-stepping-down-in-latest-clue-russia-inquiry-may-be-ending) suggesting the Mueller investigation is wrapping up. > [@NPR](#): > > One of the most prominent members of special counsel Robert Mueller’s team investigating Russia’s attack on the 2016 presidential election will soon leave the office and the Justice Department, two sources close to the matter tell NPR. > > … > > Weissmann’s move offers a potent signal that the special counsel investigation is all but done, one source said. > > His leaving will follow the departure of the senior-most FBI agent working on the Mueller probe, who has taken his own next step. Special Agent in Charge David Archey started a new job on March 4 as head of the FBI’s office in Richmond, Va. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10025 "2019-03-14T15:13:18Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > It’s more about making a possible pardon irrelevant. So what about the effect of a pardon or commutation on the asset forfeitures and restitutions/fines Manafort paid? Can Trump give Paulie his millions back? The Internet Lawyers seem to be all over the place, what say the lawyers at the Dope? ---
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10026 "2019-03-14T15:17:17Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > [More Tea leaves](https://www.npr.org/2019/03/14/703108073/top-mueller-prosecutor-stepping-down-in-latest-clue-russia-inquiry-may-be-ending) suggesting the Mueller investigation is wrapping up. I am not a Mueller investigation follower, but haven’t people been suggesting that the investigation is “wrapping up” for months now? My response: “You keep using that word. I don’t think it means what you think it means.” ---
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10027 "2019-03-14T15:29:51Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > So what about the effect of a pardon or commutation on the asset forfeitures and restitutions/fines Manafort paid? Can Trump give Paulie his millions back? > > The Internet Lawyers seem to be all over the place, what say the lawyers at the Dope? Ex parte Garland 71 U.S. 333 (1866) > [@](#): > > 1. A pardon reaches the punishment prescribed for an offence and the guilt of the offender. If granted before conviction, it prevents any of the penalties and disabilities consequent upon conviction from attaching; if granted after conviction, it removes the penalties and disabilities and restores him to all his civil rights. It gives him a new credit and capacity. There is only this limitation to its operation: it does not restore offices forfeited, or property of interests vested in others in consequence of the conviction and judgment. The property would have to be “vested in others.” If it is already in the Treasury, then probably won’t be returned. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10028 "2019-03-14T15:42:04Z")
The President might have the discretion to order a refund of any funds now held by the Treasury, and I wouldn’t put it past this guy. Don’t think it’s ever happened before under these circumstances, but hell, we’re saying that just about every day now! ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10029 "2019-03-14T17:34:21Z")
He should tread carefully. That’s the sort of outrageous overreach of power that could lead Senate Republicans to express deep concern for approximately one 24-hour news cycle. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10030 "2019-03-14T18:13:33Z")
Astonishing unanimity - in a 420-0 vote, the House says the SC’s report should be public: [https://www.aol.com/article/news/2019/03/14/in-420-0-vote-house-says-mueller-report-should-be-public/23692344/](https://www.aol.com/article/news/2019/03/14/in-420-0-vote-house-says-mueller-report-should-be-public/23692344/) ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10031 "2019-03-14T18:22:11Z")
> [@romansperson](#): > > And who has been doing illegal shit unnoticed (or uncared about) for years, until he ended up in the Trumpiverse. This is what really bothers me. I understand that first priorities with US law enforcement lie with violent crime here in this country, but some of the stuff Manafort did very likely resulted in people being killed elsewhere and it would have been awful nice if someone somewhere had given a shit about that earlier. Just sayin’. For decades, Manafort’s been openly bragging about lobbying/political practices which were clearly unethical (illegal? IANAL). The level of white-collar crime in America is preposterous. We hear that the Trump Family wasn’t particularly more criminal than some other N.Y. real estate tycoons — they just attracted attention when they won the big election. Even credible allegation of child rape against Trump is ignored. Sex with “semi-willing” 13-year-old girls is just a perk of being in with the New York billionaire set. Never worry though; New York’s Finest are on the job, suffocating blacks who try to make a few dimes by selling loose cigarettes. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10032 "2019-03-14T18:22:57Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Astonishing unanimity - in a 420-0 vote, the House says the SC’s report should be public: [In 420-0 vote, House says Mueller report should be public](https://www.aol.com/article/news/2019/03/14/in-420-0-vote-house-says-mueller-report-should-be-public/23692344/) Well, the Dem’s obviously hope it hangs Donald. The R’s only argument for not making it public would be that it makes Donald look bad, and since the Party line is “no collusion/nothing to see here”, what harm is there in making it public? Not that avoiding hypocrisy is a priority for those folks, but sometimes they try. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10033 "2019-03-14T18:26:55Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Well, the Dem’s obviously hope it hangs Donald. The R’s only argument for not making it public would be that it makes Donald look bad, and since the Party line is “no collusion/nothing to see here”, what harm is there in making it public? > > Not that avoiding hypocrisy is a priority for those folks, **but sometimes they try.** Cite? ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10034 "2019-03-14T18:55:03Z")
> [@Folly](#): > > Ex parte Garland 71 U.S. 333 (1866) > > > [@](#): > > > > 1. A pardon reaches the punishment prescribed for an offence and the guilt of the offender. If granted before conviction, it prevents any of the penalties and disabilities consequent upon conviction from attaching; if granted after conviction, it removes the penalties and disabilities and restores him to all his civil rights. It gives him a new credit and capacity. There is only this limitation to its operation: it does not restore offices forfeited, or property of interests vested in others in consequence of the conviction and judgment. > > The property would have to be “vested in others.” If it is already in the Treasury, then probably won’t be returned. What about a commutation instead of a pardon? Do either affect the ordered restitution? Also, are criminal vs civil forfeitures treated differently? Seeems like this is a multi-dimensional issue that could keep lawyers and courts busy. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10035 "2019-03-14T19:06:34Z")
Duuude. > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > … 420… Does the Senate get a say? ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10036 "2019-03-14T19:13:50Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Does the Senate get a say? Non-binding resolution, so only if they want to also speak up. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10037 "2019-03-14T19:14:40Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Duuude. > > Does the Senate get a say? From the article: > [@](#): > > Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., has been less eager to push Barr on the release of the report, despite some in his caucus who have said they want to ensure transparency. > > Republican Sen. Chuck Grassley of Iowa introduced legislation with Democratic Sen. Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut that would require Mueller to submit a detailed report to lawmakers and the public at the end of the investigation. But both McConnell and the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham, have declined to say whether they would support the legislation. > > Graham said he agrees “with the concept of transparency,” but stopped short of supporting Grassley’s bill, saying he disagrees with taking discretion away from the attorney general. So the Senate probably won’t vote unless McConnell is backed into a corner. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10038 "2019-03-14T20:08:49Z")
Individual 1 is threatening to sic his military, police, and biker supporters on his opponents. > **[Trump's thuggish threat of violence against his critics | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/14/opinions/trumps-thuggish-threat-of-violence-against-his-critics-lockhart/)** > > How deeply has President Trump taken our politics into the gutter? Joe Lockhart says we shouldn't expect an apology from the President for his remark implying that his supporters could act violently toward his critics from the left. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10039 "2019-03-14T20:27:17Z")
Lindsay Graham has just blocked a Senate vote on making the Mueller report public unless there’s a special prosecutor to investigate Hillary’s emails. ---
**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10040 "2019-03-14T20:53:40Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Lindsay Graham has just blocked a Senate vote on making the Mueller report public unless there’s a special prosecutor to investigate Hillary’s emails. In other news, Andy Borowitz has thrown up his hands and gotten a new job as a barista. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10041 "2019-03-14T20:54:15Z")
And Graham can be known for the rest of American history as a guy who actively tried to hide the results of the investigation from the American people. Take your place, idiot. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10042 "2019-03-14T21:01:40Z")
Trump seriously has the Sadim Touch…everything and everyone who gets associated with him turns to shit. Businesses, people, reputations…all of it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=501) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=503)