# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 510
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10183 "2019-03-24T20:36:37Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It shouldn’t really be a surprise to us that the Trump AG’s summary of the Mueller report looks good for Trump on the surface. It would have been almost shocking if it hadn’t been. > > Huh? It was a factual statement. That should be kept in mind for a political document such as this. And it doesn’t even require lies – Barr might genuinely believe there’s no solid case for obstruction. I’m saying that based on the things Barr has already said, this doesn’t actually tell us much at all about what is in the report. Oh, come on. You know what else is a factual statement? If Obama signed an agreement with Iran, and I described it this way: “Barack Obama, who kicked off his state Senate career in the home of a known terrorist, just signed an agreement to ease sanctions on a state sponsor of terror.” That would be completely factual. It would also be a horseshit insinuation. The factual preamble is designed to cast aspersions on an act of the president. Hey, the whole statement is factually correct, so no one could possibly argue with the way it was formulated, right? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2019, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10184 "2019-03-24T20:38:37Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Yeah, and after the big NULL of a two year special prosecutor investigation, Americans are really clamoring for more of the same. > > The people who really lost in this debacle were the media. Public opinion flipped on the Mueller investigation some time ago, and a majority saw it as mostly a political attack on the President. This is, at best, a highly misleading interpretation of the polling. A large majority of Americans generally trust the Mueller investigation: [Most Americans have confidence in Mueller's investigation, poll finds - CBS News](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/americans-dont-think-muellers-investigation-is-a-witch-hunt/) > [@](#): > > So by all means, keep it up. If the House keeps opening investigation after investigation and continues to find nothing, Trump is going to be the big winner. This is just ridiculous. The Democrats have had the House for all of about two months. They’ve started to actually conduct oversight of the President and his administration, which hadn’t actually occurred yet. Unless you think to believe that they’ve done nothing in violation of law or ethics, it seems likely that some of this oversight will result in evidence of wrongdoing by the administration. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2019, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10185 "2019-03-24T20:42:40Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Oh, come on. You know what else is a factual statement? If Obama signed an agreement with Iran, and I described it this way: “Barack Obama, who kicked off his state Senate career in the home of a known terrorist, just signed an agreement to ease sanctions on a state sponsor of terror.” > > That would be completely factual. It would also be a horseshit insinuation. The factual preamble is designed to cast aspersions on an act of the president. Hey, the whole statement is factually correct, so no one could possibly argue with the way it was formulated, right? If you want to believe that Barr is a fair and objective judge of Mueller’s report, then you are free too. I think that’s a pretty ridiculous belief, but you are free to do so, and I am free to criticize you for it, and point to the evidence as to why this is a ridiculous belief. So far, we know nothing beyond “Barr doesn’t really think this report warrants a criminal indictment of the President or those close to him who haven’t already been indicted”. This doesn’t really tell us much at all about the actual report. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2019, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10186 "2019-03-24T20:48:12Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > …It’ll be interesting to see how Trump moves on from this… He’s going to crow, boast, strut, preen, tweet his heart out, pound his chest, and go on to win again in 2020. And the Mueller investigation will turn out to have been a nothingberder. ETA: I hope I’m overreacting and turn out to be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2019, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10187 "2019-03-24T20:48:37Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Yeah, and after the big NULL of a two year special prosecutor investigation, Americans are really clamoring for more of the same. > > The people who really lost in this debacle were the media. Public opinion flipped on the Mueller investigation some time ago, and a majority saw it as mostly a political attack on the President. So by all means, keep it up. If the House keeps opening investigation after investigation and continues to find nothing, Trump is going to be the big winner. A lot of people–myself included–never expected there to be enough evidence of full-on conspiracy, but understand that the investigation is one way to start exposing Trump’s venal, corrupt character and the bullshit bogus facade of himself that he is constantly propping up. It’s no less a political attack than just about every imbecilic thing that comes out of his mouth or that he tweets. Everyone sees that, too. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2019, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10188 "2019-03-24T20:49:10Z")
Seth Abramson is a great tweeter to follow for the perspective of a lawyer who thinks this is just the beginning of the “collusion” investigation: [https://twitter.com/SethAbramson](https://twitter.com/SethAbramson) ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2019, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10189 "2019-03-24T20:51:24Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Seth Abramson is a great tweeter to follow for the perspective on a lawyer who thinks this is just the beginning of the “collusion” investigation: [https://twitter.com/SethAbramson](https://twitter.com/SethAbramson) This series of tweets is very level-headed. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2019, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10190 "2019-03-24T20:52:28Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > If the House keeps opening investigation after investigation and continues to find nothing, Trump is going to be the big winner. To some extent that is true, and for anything like their investigation of Deutsche Bank, I expect that they’re not going to find much. On the other hand, if they investigate topics like the Presidential Records Act, I expect that they’ll come up with a whole bunch of goodies. It really depends. Unfortunately, all the smart people generally end up in the Senate. Compare the Nunes Memo to the (effectively) same on that was written by Chuck Grassley and its a world apart. So while there are probably some great things to investigate that are better-suited to investigation by Congress, in its legitimate oversight duties, I’m not super hopeful that they’ll find or stick to those. Elijah Cummings seems to be doing some good work. Schiff…no. We’ll have to see with the others. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2019, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10191 "2019-03-24T20:53:30Z")
Good comment on Twitter from John Dean > [@](#): > > John Dean > ‏Verified account @JohnWDean > Mar 22 > > Trump and his minions think they dodged a bullet. I have a notion — only a recurring though — that Mueller delivered a bomb to AG Barr, who is now trying to figure out how to tell Trump in a way that doesn’t cause him to start World War III. Barr knows he works for a psycho. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2019, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10192 "2019-03-24T20:55:22Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > He’s going to crow, boast, strut, preen, tweet his heart out, pound his chest, and go on to win again in 2020. And the Mueller investigation will turn out to have been a nothingberder. > > ETA: I hope I’m overreacting and turn out to be wrong. He just tweeted today, part of it it was"Keep America Great." He has saved the country all by himself. And that is the fucking slogan for the next election, I predict. And enough people will buy it. We may be fucked. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2019, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10193 "2019-03-24T20:56:05Z")
Another voice of reason > [@](#): > > Paul Krugman > ‏Verified account @paulkrugman > 50m50 minutes ago > > Three things: > > 1. We need to see the report, not just Trump appointees’ summary > > 2. Anyone who thought Mueller was a silver bullet that would bring Trump down was living in a fantasy world > > 3. The administration’s corruption on multiple fronts is as obvious as ever ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2019, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10194 "2019-03-24T20:56:57Z")
Devin Nunes: The Mueller report should be burned. > **[Rep. Devin Nunes tells Fox & Friends he wants to 'burn' the Mueller report](https://theweek.com/speedreads/831058/rep-devin-nunes-tells-fox--friends-wants-burn-mueller-report)** ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2019, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10195 "2019-03-24T20:57:19Z")
Virginia Heffernan again, on what her source said about the report as compared to Barr’s letter: “The report is much worse than this”. > We shall see. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2019, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10196 "2019-03-24T20:57:41Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > He’s going to crow, boast, strut, preen, tweet his heart out, pound his chest, and go on to win again in 2020. And the Mueller investigation will turn out to have been a nothingberder. > > ETA: I hope I’m overreacting and turn out to be wrong. When do Manafort and Stone get their pardons? Soon, he’ll be raging even at a higher level about investigating the Clintons and Comey; you know, the real Russian colluders. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2019, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10197 "2019-03-24T20:59:23Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > This series of tweets is very level-headed. Doesn’t sound to me like it. Sounds like sour grapes and conspiracism. To be sure, Barr has a very specific view of Executive Power that does go the President’s way and we shouldn’t expect a reasonable choice from him on that line. BUT, there’s no indication in the letter that he usurped the choice from Mueller, that’s just Abramson having a fever dream. And I highly doubt that the full report will say anything different than the summary does: Mueller couldn’t make a full determination and decided to leave it to the DOJ. Lawyers aren’t de facto brilliant and mechanistically reasonable. Just because one says something don’t make it so. I’ve seen arguments from CREW and against CREW that were both by highly regarded lawyers, coming to vastly different conclusions. It’s a wide space out there and mostly you’re just giving your opinion and trying to cheat to find something to support it. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2019, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10198 "2019-03-24T21:03:00Z")
I’m still trying to sort it all out but perhaps it was Barr (and Rosenstein) who declined to press for obstruction of justice? Again, I think it was overtly political, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that Barr and Rosenstein necessarily believe the president was guilt-less. It probably means that they just didn’t want to go there. Barr had already been on record as saying that, in his legal opinion, the president couldn’t obstruct justice simply by firing Comey. I don’t know what Rosenstein’s position on the matter is, but he’s the outgoing deputy AG, so maybe whatever he believed was overruled, or not. I honestly don’t care if obstruction charges weren’t filed or even recommended or hinted at. I think the way to deal with Trump is to deal with him at the ballot box. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2019, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10199 "2019-03-24T21:06:26Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I honestly don’t care if obstruction charges weren’t filed or even recommended or hinted at. I think the way to deal with Trump is to deal with him at the ballot box. I’m fine with whatever, I just don’t want him escaping the country at the last moment. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2019, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10200 "2019-03-24T21:08:55Z")
I just don’t want the republicans to retake the House and White House in 2020. If they do, we’re in deep shit. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2019, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10201 "2019-03-24T21:11:52Z")
Please help this poor hungover soul. I can’t follow all of this. Mueller did, or did not say, that there was no collusion? Or the AG has made that conclusion based on his reading of the report? Or something else? Simple sentences please. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2019, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10202 "2019-03-24T21:15:33Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Virginia Heffernan again, on what her source said about the report as compared to Barr’s letter: > > “The report is much worse than this”. > > [https://twitter.com/page88/status/1109908926215176192](https://twitter.com/page88/status/1109908926215176192) > > We shall see. I’m reasonably sure that it’s more detailed and thereby worse. But, the Barr summary had the first word and that word will almost certainly prove to be at least consistent within reason of Mueller’s decisions and that’s enough for the public to not much care. I’ll care, but it won’t matter at all. It will mostly tell us whether more is coming. If all discussion of whether or not to indict Trump Jr on the foreign donations statute is missing (post-redaction) for example, then we can be pretty sure that the FEC or FBI is holding onto that. It’s just being treated as a campaign finance violation, not a Russian coordination crime, and we can expect it to still be in the works. I think that the main thing which we’ll get out of the Mueller report will be to know exactly how tightly he defined his mandate. I’m guessing that he tightened up as time continued on and decided that, in terms of protecting the investigations from interference and preventing flight by the subjects, pardons, etc. the best strategy was to spin it out so that unknown others in the FBI and DOJ could operate without their movements being watched. I expect a few glaring gaps in the report. But, of course, I am quite liable to be wrong as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=509) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=511)