# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 522
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10423 "2019-03-28T18:52:56Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > In a surprise move, Trump comes out in favor of additional DOJ and FBI review to figure out what happened when it was decided that [a case ended without exoneration](https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1111214993293357056), but with no indictments. Trump also wants to release the Mueller report unredacted and all of the FISA warrants against everyone that Mueller investigated. I think it’s fair to say that his goal is to throw a wrench into the continuing investigations ([which are “robustly” continuing](https://www.politico.com/story/2019/03/27/mueller-grand-jury-1238861)) and to gain access to as much information about them, so that he can start preparing cover stories. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10424 "2019-03-28T23:04:21Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > 1992 _New York Times_ [article](https://www.nytimes.com/1992/10/19/opinion/essay-the-patsy-prosecutor.html?smid=fb-share&fbclid=IwAR1j_9ZvVO5Bj7loXuhEdBXkKsQ0lAMhdotFXnlEVg4l1l7aBFJ2iVRpnD4) describes William Barr as the “the Coverup-General”: > > > [@](#): > > > > In a last-ditch maneuver to block an independent investigation into Iraqgate, Attorney General William Barr has hired a so-called “special” counsel. But the man lending his good reputation to this subterfuge can be fired by the very Attorney General he is supposed to investigate. > > > > Why does the Coverup-General resist independent investigation? Because he knows where it may lead: to Dick Thornburgh, James Baker, Clayton Yeutter, Brent Scowcroft and himself. He vainly hopes to be able to head it off, or at least be able to use the threat of firing to negotiate a deal. All that type of information came out during Barr’s Senate hearing, but the Republicans were all ‘_a President deserves the Attorney General he wants_ (snerk snerk)’ and they had the numbers. So there it is. I will say that if your citation’s nickname (Coverup-General) had gotten a bit more attention, some of those Senate votes might have been slightly shakier. > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Trump also wants to release the Mueller report unredacted … We should probably distinguish between “what Trump _says_ he wants” and “what Trump _actually_ wants, as demonstrated by what his enablers do in relation to the topic of Trump’s pronouncements.” ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10425 "2019-03-29T03:35:22Z")
It looks like the House Dems will wait until their week’s deadline for Barr to release the report has passed before making the next step. On April 3rd they will likely issue a subpoena for the report. I would expect Barr to either refuse the subpoena or rush-issue his sanitized and redacted version of the report. The Dems won’t wait, or accept the Barr version, so it looks like they will sue in court - who would decide on that, Supreme Court? That’s all going to take time, so it would make sense to subpoena Mueller directly for testimony. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10426 "2019-03-29T16:43:18Z")
Speculating on the timeline going forward… If subpoena is issued by Congress for Mueller Report on 3rd April, Barr will likely prevaricate, so Dems immediately start legal proceedings to get the report released and issue subpoena to Mueller to testify. I would imagine that Mueller is expecting to be called to testify and is preparing himself for that. I would also imagine that Mueller is not pleased about how the findings of his report have been twisted and misrepresented, and how justice is not being upheld (e.g. Trump declaring “exoneration” and “vindication” on both collusion and obstruction of justice). So I would not be at all surprised if Mueller agrees to testify the very next day. Could we see Mueller testify before the House on Thursday 4th or “Mueller Friday” 5th April? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10427 "2019-03-29T17:41:13Z")
I’m pretty sure that they’ll ignore the April 3 deadline and let it be properly redacted. I mean, remember that while Mueller has been an invisible spirit who dwells in another plane of existence for us, to the people on the Justice Committee, he’s just a dude with a cellphone. If Barr tells them that he’s getting it redacted in accordance with Mueller’s requests, then they call Mueller, he confirms, and all is well. Assuming that Nadler isn’t an idiot, they’ll just wait for it. The deadline was just political theatrics. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10428 "2019-03-29T17:52:03Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Could we see Mueller testify before the House on Thursday 4th or “Mueller Friday” 5th April? I think what Mueller does may depend in part on whether he is still a Justice Department employee/contractor or not when events occur. If Barr and Rosenstein are still his bosses, he may follow orders if they tell him to decline to testify. Then again, he might resign in protest. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10429 "2019-03-29T18:10:06Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I’m pretty sure that they’ll ignore the April 3 deadline and let it be properly redacted. > > I mean, remember that while Mueller has been an invisible spirit who dwells in another plane of existence for us, to the people on the Justice Committee, he’s just a dude with a cellphone. If Barr tells them that he’s getting it redacted in accordance with Mueller’s requests, then they call Mueller, he confirms, and all is well. > > Assuming that Nadler isn’t an idiot, they’ll just wait for it. The deadline was just political theatrics. I don’t think they will wait another few weeks. The report _should_ already be in Congress’ hands now. Even if they waited for Barr’s redacted version, how would they be able to tell what has been legitimately redacted for classified/Grand Jury/ongoing investigation reasons, and what Barr has redacted for his own reasons? They can’t. At the very least, the House Intelligence Committee and/or “Gang of Eight” will need to see the full unredacted report. If they don’t have it now, there is no reason to believe that Barr will acquiesce to letting them see it in the future, unless he’s ordered to do so by (Supreme?) Court. Hence, I see subpoenas for Barr, Rosenstein and Mueller as the next step, being issued on 3rd of April. > [@Crotalus](#): > > I think what Mueller does may depend in part on whether he is still a Justice Department employee/contractor or not when events occur. If Barr and Rosenstein are still his bosses, he may follow orders if they tell him to decline to testify. Then again, he might resign in protest. I’ve been trying to find out if there would be any impediments to Mueller testifying, and am unclear on this. I’ve heard that Barr might be able to block Mueller, if he’s still a DoJ employee, but is Mueller not a private citizen now? As you say, he could potentially resign, if not. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10430 "2019-03-29T18:34:07Z")
So there was this exchange on Twitter: > [@Orin Kerr](#): > > **Imagine if the Starr Report had been provided only to President Clinton’s Attorney General, Janet Reno, who then read it privately and published a 4-page letter based on her private reading stating her conclusion that President Clinton committed no crimes.** …to which a notable individual responded: > [@Monica Lewinsky](#): > > **if. fucking. only.** ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10431 "2019-03-29T18:38:34Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > I don’t think they will wait another few weeks. The report _should_ already be in Congress’ hands now. Even if they waited for Barr’s redacted version, how would they be able to tell what has been legitimately redacted for classified/Grand Jury/ongoing investigation reasons, and what Barr has redacted for his own reasons? They can’t. At the very least, the House Intelligence Committee and/or “Gang of Eight” will need to see the full unredacted report. If they don’t have it now, there is no reason to believe that Barr will acquiesce to letting them see it in the future, unless he’s ordered to do so by (Supreme?) Court. Hence, I see subpoenas for Barr, Rosenstein and Mueller as the next step, being issued on 3rd of April. > > I’ve been trying to find out if there would be any impediments to Mueller testifying, and am unclear on this. I’ve heard that Barr might be able to block Mueller, if he’s still a DoJ employee, but is Mueller not a private citizen now? As you say, he could potentially resign, if not. We’re in uncharted territory here, but I believe Mueller’s obligation to maintain his secrecy around the report would extend beyond his employment/contractual obligations with the DOJ, just as former FBI/CIA employees are not empowered to blab classified information or state secrets once they retire. Mueller, irrespective of his private feelings, is not going to go around this necessary prohibition – even if he suspects it is being done for a corrupt purpose. What I’m less sure of is how his obligation intersects with Congress, a co-equal branch of government, if they choose to subpoena him. Trump/Barr may attempt to assert some notion of executive privilege, and then it becomes a matter for the courts. _Which_ court, as we’re sadly learning, could make a huge difference. No doubt Trump will delay for as long as he can, then try to get a fast-tracked ruling from the SCOTUS. I would find it jaw dropping if even the SCOTUS found that executive privilege could attach for matters investigated during the campaign and before Trump became “president” on January 20, 2017… but nothing would surprise me anymore. Far more likely the report will leak long before the matter is resolved in the court system. Even the Gang of Eight have staff, even the DOJ have personnel who prepared the report. We don’t think Mueller himself actually did all the typing and copying, do we? DOJ is already selectively leaking. I believe there will be more. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10432 "2019-03-29T19:00:10Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > …Far more likely the report will leak long before the matter is resolved in the court system. Even the Gang of Eight have staff, even the DOJ have personnel who prepared the report. We don’t think Mueller himself actually did all the typing and copying, do we? DOJ is already selectively leaking. I believe there will be more. This. The story is too hot for someone not to leak it. And soon. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10433 "2019-03-29T20:20:24Z")
There’s been selective leaking? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10434 "2019-03-29T20:25:23Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > There’s been selective leaking? Only that the report numbers more than 300 pages. It countered what Fox “News” reported, which was that the report exceeded 700 pages. The thinking goes that Barr’s DOJ thought it would somehow look better that his 3 1/2 page summary was of 300-ish pages rather than 700-ish. I doubt many others view it that way. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10435 "2019-03-29T21:21:06Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Only that the report numbers more than 300 pages. It countered what Fox “News” reported, which was that the report exceeded 700 pages. > > The thinking goes that Barr’s DOJ thought it would somehow look better that his 3 1/2 page summary was of 300-ish pages rather than 700-ish. I doubt many others view it that way. I remember reading somewhere (no cite) that it was 900 pages. See, this is how rumors get started. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10436 "2019-03-29T21:22:43Z")
Report can be 300 pages _and_ 700 pages at the same time, depending upon whether you include the appendices and exhibits to that page count. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10437 "2019-03-29T21:43:25Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > I don’t think they will wait another few weeks. The report _should_ already be in Congress’ hands now. Even if they waited for Barr’s redacted version, how would they be able to tell what has been legitimately redacted for classified/Grand Jury/ongoing investigation reasons, and what Barr has redacted for his own reasons? They can’t. To quote myself: “I mean, remember that while Mueller has been an invisible spirit who dwells in another plane of existence for us, to the people on the Justice Committee, he’s just a dude with a cellphone. If Barr tells them that he’s getting it redacted in accordance with Mueller’s requests, then they call Mueller, he confirms, and all is well.” You can assert that it’s impossible for them to know, but assertion isn’t proof. And, to be sure, what I said may be wrong in some way. My assertion isn’t proof either. But unless you see a flaw in my argument - a statement that says exactly how it **is** possible for them to know - then it’s possible for them to know. Are you aware of a reason that they can’t ask Mueller? If not, then how are you arriving at “it’s impossible”? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10438 "2019-03-29T21:44:34Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Report can be 300 pages _and_ 700 pages at the same time, depending upon whether you include the appendices and exhibits to that page count. I would be relatively certain that Napolitano was just throwing out an arbitrary large number. Though, I’ll grant, there’s no reason for Barr to not simply give the true size, so his coyness is mildly worrying. I assume that it’s a question that will go to Mueller once he eventually is asked to come visit Congress in-person. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10439 "2019-03-29T22:03:18Z")
700 pages before redactions, 300 after. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10440 "2019-03-29T22:05:38Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I remember reading somewhere (no cite) that it was 900 pages. See, this is how rumors get started. Yep. There are a couple of versions of the Mueller Report listed on Amazon, the one with an introduction by Dershowitz and one offered by WaPo. Even though I’m sure the details are placeholders, both of those list a page count -960 and 720 respectively. So this is probably the source of some of those rumors. According to Barr’s letter, Mueller described every incidence of possible obstruction of justice. I’m surprised it is not the size of a set of encyclopedias. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10441 "2019-03-29T22:20:32Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > 700 pages before redactions, 300 after. Generally, redactions don’t make things shorter, just blacker. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10442 "2019-03-29T22:30:32Z")
It was a joke, Sonny. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=521) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=523)