# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 542
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10823 "2019-04-18T16:53:43Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Why would he include it? His mandate was to investigate Russian intervention/subversion into our election and the extent to which the Trump campaign conspired with them to accomplish it. None of what you mentioned has anything to do with these mandates. > > Mueller did the appropriate thing: When he found potential crimes unrelated to his mandate, he handed them off. His mandate was that **plus** any criminal matters that reveal themselves as part of the investigation. [DocumentCloud](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3726408-Rosenstein-letter-appointing-Mueller-special.html) (ii) [28 CFR § 600.4 - Jurisdiction. | Electronic Code of Federal Regulations (e-CFR) | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute](https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/600.4) (b) I’m not super surprised but, given the mandate, it would have been reasonable for a Voume 3 where he says, “The scope of other matters falling under section ii of my mandate and 600.4.b matters quickly proved to be overly vast for the special counsel’s office while still hoping to maintain a thin tendril on the specific question of investigation. As such, these matters have been referred to the FBI for further investigation and possible prosecution.” ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10824 "2019-04-18T16:56:29Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I’m not super surprised but, given the mandate, it would have been reasonable for a Voume 3 where he says, “The scope of other matters falling under section ii of my mandate and 600.4.b matters quickly proved to be overly vast for the special counsel’s office while still hoping to maintain a thin tendril on the specific question of investigation. As such, these matters have been referred to the FBI for further investigation and possible prosecution.” Some of this is covered in the Appendices, although ongoing cases are redacted. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10825 "2019-04-18T17:07:49Z")
Everything coming out so far points to the conclusion: The participations of Trump & Cabal were limited because the Russians were not stupid enough to let them get too deeply involved lest they screw up the works. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10826 "2019-04-18T17:10:23Z")
> [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](#): > > No shit . . . that’s a lot of contacts with Russians and shady behavior, even if it doesn’t violate any criminal statutes. Any attempt to summarize this thing by saying “no collusion, no obstruction” is in transparent bad faith. > > Speaking of transparent bad faith, here’s what Mueller’s report said: > > > [@](#): > > > > Although the investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome and that the Campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts, the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities. > > Barr took this sentence in his “letter” and truncated it to: > > > [@](#): > > > > [T]he investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities. > > Basically the same meaning, right? Also add to that the following statement a couple of paragraphs later > [@](#): > > A statement that the investigation did not establish particular facts does not mean that there was no evidence of those facts. Hardly an exoneration. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10827 "2019-04-18T17:22:25Z")
> [@gytalf2000](#): > > Holy cow! He is such an asshole. You could make a X-Y scatterplot of Trump’s instances of being an asshole. Maybe assholery on one axis and importance of the subject on the other. A minor instance might be not letting Sean Spicer meet the Pope and major instance being putting separated kids in cages because cruelty can be used as a deterrent to immigration. With all the data points you would get a cloud so dense it’s a solid blot. The Rorschach test of looking at that blot is that it seems that a lot of MAGAers think that’s a great feature of Trump and not a bug, and that’s why they support him. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10828 "2019-04-18T17:25:09Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > There’s very little difference between this attitude and deep state conspiracy theories, IMHO. My attitude can be summed up as “let’s see the full report, and any judgment/conclusion made before then is nigh-meaningless”. How is that a conspiracy theory? And based on what’s been reported so far, it seems very reasonable to suspect that Barr was in fact being profoundly misleading about the findings of the Mueller report: [https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-barr-edit](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-barr-edit) ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10829 "2019-04-18T17:31:53Z")
So, is Trump not guilty of obstruction of justice because his aides refused to follow his orders? How does this fat fuck keep dodging bullets? He’s incapable of understanding the illegality of his actions, yet his incompetence seems to keep him from getting locked up. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10830 "2019-04-18T17:36:22Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > I just randomly opened pages 9-10 of the report. It is definately not an open and shut exoneration of Trump. The thrust is that there were numerous connections between the Trump campaign and the Russians, but that the people they interviewed, lied, deleted emails and pleaded the 5th such that it was impossible to get enough of a full picture of what was going on to charge anybody. Maybe the emails didn’t get deleted, maybe they just couldn’t find them … I knew this whole process was going to go this way, right up til now when those of you screaming the loudest about how satisfied you guys were going to be once the ‘truth’ came out. Turns out the truth isn’t really the truth unless its the ‘truth’ you guys want to hear. Sad state of affairs. Trump is a fucking idiot that I didn’t want nor do I want in Office now. But you guys and the likes of the Democrats need to wake the fuck up and accept the responsibility for putting his ass in office. Stop wallowing in self pity and find a fucking candidate that is largely liked by all . ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10831 "2019-04-18T17:43:19Z")
Hey, Mr Fuckwit Dumbass, the _people who voted for Trump put Trump into office_. And all 40 posts you made since you joined? None of them say what you claim they said. Yet another lying scumbag “conservative”. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10832 "2019-04-18T17:44:05Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Some of this is covered in the Appendices, although ongoing cases are redacted. 2/14 Achievements Unlocked Not that we had much visibility into Mueller’s actions but it’s unfortunate that we’ll have even less as we try to see how far the FBI will get. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10833 "2019-04-18T17:48:58Z")
There’s a thing in American politics that seems to be assumed to be given, and that thing is this thing: Republicans will _automatically_ vote for the Republican candidate regardless of that candidate’s competence or suitability, and that it is the Democrats’ responsibility to teach them the error of their ways. I humbly suggest this isn’t true, and that a GOP voter’s bad judgement is not the fault of the Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10834 "2019-04-18T17:51:25Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > Maybe the emails didn’t get deleted, maybe they just couldn’t find them … The report specifically states “deleted communications”. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10835 "2019-04-18T17:53:01Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > Maybe the emails didn’t get deleted, maybe they just couldn’t find them … > I knew this whole process was going to go this way, right up til now when those of you screaming the loudest about how satisfied you guys were going to be once the ‘truth’ came out. > > Turns out the truth isn’t really the truth unless its the ‘truth’ you guys want to hear. > > Sad state of affairs. > > Trump is a fucking idiot that I didn’t want nor do I want in Office now. But you guys and the likes of the Democrats need to wake the fuck up and accept the responsibility for putting his ass in office. Stop wallowing in self pity and find a fucking candidate that is largely liked by all . I share your _concerns_.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10836 "2019-04-18T17:58:39Z")
> **[Preet Bharara: ‘I didn’t call Trump back and it’s one of the best decisions I...](https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/mar/15/preet-bharara-interview-doing-justice)** > > Fired by the president, the former US attorney has written his first book. He talks about if and when Trump will face justice – and why he fears for his own safety > [@](#): > > “I have a great fear that no matter what Mueller says – if it’s a devastating indictment of the president or the opposite – one half of the American people won’t accept it.” > > How dangerous would that be? “I think it would be terrible,” he says. “If someone like Bob Mueller, who volunteered to go to Vietnam and took a bullet wound, who held high-ranking jobs then chose to take on lowly homicide cases, if someone of that stature can be attacked and you can make tens of millions of Americans think he is a piece of shit, that’s horrifying to me.” ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10837 "2019-04-18T18:17:01Z")
> [@Mr Exonerated](#): > > President slumped back in his chair and said, “Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I’m fucked.” Which is perfectly normal…what any innocent man would say in this situation. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10838 "2019-04-18T18:24:13Z")
Even that quote contains a lie. The end of Trump’s presidency would not be terrible at all. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10839 "2019-04-18T18:25:51Z")
Maybe Democrats can’t impeach Trump, but they could try to impeach Barr. Or at least demand that he resign. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10840 "2019-04-18T18:32:59Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > The way the “T” is bracketed in this quote from Barr is interesting. Anyone want to lay money down that the first word that was cut off in this sentence was either “Although” or “While”?: > > “[T]he investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.” For the record, here is the full quote: “Although the investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and that the Campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts, **[T]he investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.**” Anyone wanna argue that this is an honest parsing of that quote? ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10841 "2019-04-18T18:33:49Z")
Yes, Barr is a lick-spittle lackey. But his press conference has now become instantly and completely irrelevant, as everyone pours over the actual report. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10842 "2019-04-18T18:38:52Z")
If they pour over it, hopefully the redaction ink is water-based. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=541) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=543)