# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 549
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10963 "2019-04-22T04:33:45Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > Larry Hogan ## I don’t even know who that is. Rudy Giuliani claims Paul Manafort was tortured by the Mueller investigators, and called Mueller investigator Andrew Weissmann a hit man. [https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/21/rudy-giuliani-torture-jake-tapper-1284279](https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/21/rudy-giuliani-torture-jake-tapper-1284279) ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10964 "2019-04-22T12:20:15Z")
I didn’t have time to read the report until now. Some things I note: 1. Zero reference to Columbus Nova. Mueller notes that he was allowed to look into the payments to Cohen because of the Russia angle, but there’s no discussion of the Russia angle - not even a name. Granted, it seems to be impossible to do a word search on the document, but I don’t see anything. I would assume that it’s somehow related to the inauguration investigation. 1. Based on the testimony, a variety of Oligarchs should have been interested in getting into contact with the Trumps after the election, because of impending sanctions. Supposedly, that was Putin’s message to a big meeting of 50+ of them. But somehow, out of that, only Alfa Bank seems to have made the attempt and they did so in duplicate. 2. Bannon and Prince’s missing texts. :dubious: 3. Trump tends to stay quiet when he is guilty (e.g. the Trump Foundation). Notably, his instinct was to stay quiet as regards the Veselnitskaya meeting. That said, he could just have been trying to protect his son - worrying that he was guilty of something. Various testimony - e.g. from Priebus, etc. - seem to bolster the idea that Trump really didn’t know about the meeting until June 2017. (Or forgot entirely about it in all respects.) On the other hand, it is unclear how the conversation that we are given to understand too place is supposed to jibe with Paul Manafort’s notes. While it seems clear from the notes that they did talk about Bill Browder from start to finish, the conversation is about the RNC (not the DNC). And it’s not a typo, unless somehow Dick Cheney has been a secret agent of the DNC all this time. I’m curious that Mueller’s team simply wrote, “Yup, the notes seem largely correct.” I did not see a Dick Cheney mentioned in the conversation. I’m loath to think that Mueller lied in the report, but one suspects that he’s inserting a false pass to cover a counterintelligence operation. 1. I’m not too concerned by most of the redactions. I believe that most of them concern people lying - usually Stone. It seems reasonably clear, despite the redactions, that the Trump campaign did have a connection to Assange and Mueller doesn’t give us much reason to think anything other than that the Trump campaign believed that Assange was getting everything from Russia. So while Mueller doesn’t accuse the campaign of having any formal agreement with Russia, and he admits as much that he couldn’t prove in court that the Trump people were smart enough to realize the importance of their actions, he seems to make it relatively plain that the campaign was signaling to Russia their desires and hoping that they would respond as asked. While that may be outside the realm of conspiracy, I don’t read the report as being meant to be read in any other way than that this should be impeachable conduct. 1. Trump has the impulse control of a 3 year old. 2. There is not only zero doubt that Mueller is accusing Trump of criminal Obstruction of Justice, Volume 2 is effectively written to tell everyone in Congress that they’re completely derelict in their duty and a blight to the nation in the eyes of the Constitution if they let Trump go. You cannot read all of Volume 2 and, as a Senator, have any doubt about what your duty is. Not to say that they will do their duty. But they’ll know. They’ll know that the people won’t read past page 1 and that the message contained at the end is for them. Bob Mueller has faithfully told them what the law is, from their own pens right the way into the Constitution. They are being judged and they’ll know shame if they fail that test. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10965 "2019-04-22T12:25:32Z")
1. More lawyers than Michael Cohen are going to get disbarred. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10966 "2019-04-22T13:08:29Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Granted, it seems to be impossible to do a word search on the document, but I don’t see anything. Here’s a couple of links to searchable versions of the Mueller report: > **[mueller-report.pdf](https://viewfromll2.files.wordpress.com/2019/04/mueller-report.pdf)** > > 141.39 MB [https://www.scribd.com/document/406729844/Mueller-Report](https://www.scribd.com/document/406729844/Mueller-Report) ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10967 "2019-04-22T13:40:54Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Here’s a couple of links to searchable versions of the Mueller report: > > [https://viewfromll2.files.wordpress.com/2019/04/mueller-report.pdf](https://viewfromll2.files.wordpress.com/2019/04/mueller-report.pdf) > > [Mueller Report | PDF | Wiki Leaks | Donald Trump](https://www.scribd.com/document/406729844/Mueller-Report) Or just download a copy to your own personal .pdf, and then Ctrl+F. ---
**Author:** ![slumtrimpet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@slumtrimpet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slumtrimpet)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10968 "2019-04-22T13:45:13Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > … > I like some of Bernie’s ideas, but we certainly aren’t ready for them. **He has no plan, only ideas.** > > … (my bolding) I don’t necessarily disagree with your post except for the part I’ve bolded. Can we please do away with this particular meme? Bernie has plans - lots of them. You may not like them or agree with them, but they’re there. A quick google search elicited these; [https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/13/politics/sanders-social-security-plan/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/13/politics/sanders-social-security-plan/index.html) > **[Here's how much Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Warren Buffett could pay under Bernie...](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/31/how-much-bezos-gates-buffet-could-pay-under-bernie-sanders-tax-plan.html)** > > Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders' new "For the 99.8% Act" would raise estate taxes up to 77 percent for those leaving over $1 billion. [http://dem.social/we-dont-have-the-money-to-pay-for-everything-bernie-wants/](http://dem.social/we-dont-have-the-money-to-pay-for-everything-bernie-wants/) [https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-how-bernie-sanders-would-pay-for-his-medicare-for-all-program-2017-09-13](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-how-bernie-sanders-would-pay-for-his-medicare-for-all-program-2017-09-13) Or do your own search. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10969 "2019-04-22T13:54:45Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > … They are being judged and they’ll know shame if they fail that test. Sage Rat. I agree with everything but the above. It’s clear that the Republicans in the Senate don’t give a shit. They will never know or understand shame. We need to get them out of office. After that, I don’t give a shit about them, because they don’t give a shit about me, you or the country. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10970 "2019-04-22T15:17:57Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > I don’t even know who that is. [Here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Hogan) is Larry Hogan’s Wiki page. I’m familiar with him because a close relative works for the State of Maryland. I would also consider Senators Peters and Murkowski to be moderate Republicans. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10971 "2019-04-22T15:24:04Z")
I’m fascinated by the Chris Christie lunch (Vol. 2, p. 38): > [@](#): > > According to Christie, at one point during the lunch the President said, “Now that we fired Flynn, the Russia thing is over." Christie laughed and responded, “No way." He said, “this Russia thing is far from over” and “[w]e’ll be here on Valentine’s Day 2018 talking about this." The President said, “[w]hat do you mean? Flynn met with the Russians. That was the problem. I fired Flynn. It’s over.” Christie recalled responding that based on his experience both as a prosecutor and as someone who had been investigated, firing Flynn would not end the investigation. Christie said there was no way to make an investigation shorter, but a lot of ways to make it longer. The President asked Christie what he meant, and Christie told the President not to talk about the investigation even if he was frustrated at times. Christie also told the President that he would never be able to get rid of Flynn, “like gum on the bottom of your shoe." > > Towards the end of the lunch, the President brought up Comey and asked if Christie was still friendly with him. Christie said he was. The President told Christie to call Comey and tell him that the President “really like[s] him. Tell him he’s part of the team." At the end of the lunch, the President repeated his request that Christie reach out to Comey. Christie had no intention of complying with the President’s request that he contact Comey. He thought the President’s request was “nonsensical” and Christie did not want to put Comey in the position of having to receive such a phone call. Christie thought it would have been uncomfortable to pass on that message. Trump seems extraordinarily dense here. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10972 "2019-04-22T15:33:04Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > [Here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Hogan) is Larry Hogan’s Wiki page. I’m familiar with him because a close relative works for the State of Maryland. > > I would also consider Senators Peters and Murkowski to be moderate Republicans. YMMV. Are you talking about Gary Peters? He’s a Democrat. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10973 "2019-04-22T15:56:34Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Are you talking about Gary Peters? He’s a Democrat. Yep, my bad. I meant to say Senator Collins from Maine. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10974 "2019-04-22T15:58:47Z")
Can’t prove that by her voting record. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10975 "2019-04-22T16:11:41Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Can’t prove that by her voting record. Well, she voted to acquit Bill Clinton, and she said that she didn’t vote for Trump in the 2016 election, so she does have some redeeming qualities. Granted, she has slid to the Right since Trump was elected, but I would still consider her a Moderate, in the Republican sense of the word. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10976 "2019-04-22T16:29:44Z")
I just watched John Oliver’s piece on the Mueller Report. Is it accurate to say that not only is ‘collusion’ not a legal term, it was never the purpose of the investigation? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10977 "2019-04-22T17:28:45Z")
That is correct. A criminal investigation is not going to concentrate on a word that is not a crime. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10978 "2019-04-22T19:17:49Z")
Susan Collins is no moderate. She flushed those credentials down the crapper long ago. She is bought and paid for by corporations. There’s a story at The Hill Reporter stating that she’s received more money from Breitbart owners than she has from all of Maine in the first quarter. Every time Trump does or says something stupid, she tweets about how concerned she is, then she schedules a photo-op with some girl-scouts or octogenarians somewhere and then promptly votes for Trump’s agenda right down the line. She hasn’t fooled us Mainers. I’m proud to say I have never cast a vote for that woman. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10979 "2019-04-22T19:30:49Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > Yep, my bad. I meant to say Senator Collins from Maine. Collins is a moderate? When does she ever vote moderate? ---
**Author:** ![Kyrie\_Eleison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kyrie_eleison/32/7682_2.png) [@Kyrie\_Eleison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyrie_Eleison)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10980 "2019-04-22T20:04:08Z")
Didn’t Harry Reid once say Democrats could always rely on Susan Collins to be there when they didn’t need her? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10981 "2019-04-22T20:37:45Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Susan Collins is no moderate. She flushed those credentials down the crapper long ago. She is bought and paid for by corporations. There’s a story at The Hill Reporter stating that she’s received more money from Breitbart owners than she has from all of Maine in the first quarter. Every time Trump does or says something stupid, she tweets about how concerned she is, then she schedules a photo-op with some girl-scouts or octogenarians somewhere and then promptly votes for Trump’s agenda right down the line. > > She hasn’t fooled us Mainers. I’m proud to say I have never cast a vote for that woman. She hasn’t fooled Mainers, yet she was won elections statewide for decades. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/10982 "2019-04-22T20:48:12Z")
Look how much of Maine went for Trump. He got one of our electoral votes. Look up “The County” and prepare yourself for some cow-tipping. Allow me to qualify - she hasn’t fooled us Mainers who give a shit that she pretends to be moderate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=548) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=550)