# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 55
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1081 "2017-12-05T15:51:57Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Here we go, folks! Here - we - go. Apparently Mueller has subpoenaed financial records from Deutsche bank. This is THE red line that King Donald does not want crossed for reasons that are probably obvious. If nothing else, he can notice irregularities in his finances, which might tip the team off that there’s dark money coming from somewhere. > > [Deutsche Bank hands bank records of Trump affiliates to Robert Mueller | Donald Trump | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/05/donald-trump-bank-records-handed-over-robert-mueller) > > The National Weather Service has just issued a severe tweet storm warning in effect until about 12:00 p.m. tomorrow afternoon. Torrential anti-Clinton, Comey, and Obama diatribes are expected, and we advise you all to stay away from windows. > > ETA: ninja’d by the lurker. Oh, I really hope that this is the beginning of the end for that vile, horrid piece of excrement. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1082 "2017-12-05T15:55:44Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > That certainly seems to be the implication of the vox article and it was the crux of the podcast. If your assessment of the podcast is as accurate as your claim about the “implication of the vox article”, I would be skeptical of that as well. Here’s how Vox puts it: > [@Vox](#): > > So what does Bharara think could be going on? One possibility, he suggests, is that Mueller doesn’t have anything else on Flynn that might stand up in court: “People need to really consider the possibility that this might be it.” > > But Bharara also suggests another scenario: that Mueller is “holding back on other charges to which Michael Flynn will plead guilty if and when they form the basis of charging some other folks.” > > That is — certain potential charges against Flynn could implicate others in Trump’s orbit as well, and Mueller’s team just isn’t ready to make those charges yet (and might never be). Zero implication of which he thinks is more likely. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1083 "2017-12-05T15:56:01Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > IMHO this is making a mountain out of a molehill. **When you’re on fucking bail** all molehills are mountains. How stupid does the man have to be? > [@asahi](#): > > I expect that we’re going to start hearing dueling narratives and attacks on the credibility of Mueller’s team and the federal agencies working with him. Dude, that started some time ago. Trump openly trashed the FBI just a few days ago. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1084 "2017-12-05T15:57:18Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Is FOX News covering any of this? Do you even need ask? Their [homepage](http://www.foxnews.com/) is a picture of the “biased FBI official at center of Flynn, Clinton, dossier controversies.” ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1085 "2017-12-05T15:58:33Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > **When you’re on fucking bail** all molehills are mountains. How stupid does the man have to be? Well, yeah, it’s a big deal for Manafort’s bail conditions. It’s a mole hill in terms of the implications about collusion with Russians. The latter is what I was responding to. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1086 "2017-12-05T15:59:09Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Interestingly, Bharara (among other things) made the exact same point cited above from Andrew McCarthy. Except he didn’t go so far as to say plea deals essentially don’t exist, which is what make McCarthy’s piece so dubious. And I think Preet even left out some possibilities. It could be that Flynn wasn’t involved with the major crime, assuming there is one, or the case against him is weak. It could also be that Mueller needs someone on the insIde to help navigate all this mess. In the case of the person I know, it was a business fraud case involving a couple hundred million dollars and they were third in line under the president and VP of the corporation. They were charged with several things and were facing 20 years. They pled to a relatively minor thing (20 months) and the only thing they had to do is help prosecutors understand the day to day workings of the business. “When X happens, who is normally in charge?” “Who handles this or that and where in the computer system does it get recorded?” It was worth it for the prosecutors to get that help navigating a confusing subject. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1087 "2017-12-05T16:00:54Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > Except he didn’t go so far as to say plea deals essentially don’t exist, which is what make McCarthy’s piece so dubious. McCarthy made no such claim. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1088 "2017-12-05T16:06:27Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > We’re getting closer to the moment of truth. I expect that we’re going to start hearing dueling narratives and attacks on the credibility of Mueller’s team and the federal agencies working with him. This could be the beginning of a battle that determines whether or not we continue to be a democracy in the currently and commonly understood sense. Well, Fox did mention that the FBI agent that Mueller transferred had interviewed Flynn. So, there’s the conspiracy. It was fake news!~ Wait, what do you mean Flynn already entered a guilty plea to that? What difference should it make that he admitted it? It was still fake news, right? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1089 "2017-12-05T16:07:48Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > If your assessment of the podcast is as accurate as your claim about the “implication of the vox article”, I would be skeptical of that as well. Here’s how Vox puts it:Zero implication of which he thinks is more likely. “So what does Bharara think could be going on?” ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1090 "2017-12-05T16:08:54Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > If your assessment of the podcast is as accurate as your claim about the “implication of the vox article”, I would be skeptical of that as well. Here’s how Vox puts it:Zero implication of which he thinks is more likely. “So what does Bharara think could be going on?” and then outlines several possibilities. But, yes, sorry that I’ve done all the research and actually listened to his opinion before forming my own. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1091 "2017-12-05T16:21:26Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > **When you’re on fucking bail** all molehills are mountains. How stupid does the man have to be? > Dude, that started some time ago. Trump openly trashed the FBI just a few days ago. Yes, it started some time ago, but it’s going to get ratcheted up by his attack dogs in the Republican party and the right wing news. We’re going to start hearing about Hillary Clinton’s “acid washed” emails and how agents didn’t investigate her but seem determined to prosecute him. He’s going to talk about how unfair and biased the investigation is and he’s going to crank up the volume. This is going to get nasty and probably rather soon. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1092 "2017-12-05T16:24:51Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > “So what does Bharara think could be going on?” and then outlines several possibilities. Exactly. Your claim is that he favored one proffered possibility over the others, but there’s zero indication of this from the Vox summary. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1093 "2017-12-05T16:55:50Z")
Again, the podcast is like, 15 minutes long. Your very strong opinions on it might be a bit more valid if you, you know, listened to it. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1094 "2017-12-05T17:00:19Z")
I don’t have strong opinions about it. I just said I was skeptical of your summary. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1095 "2017-12-05T17:04:51Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I don’t have strong opinions about it. I just said I was skeptical of your summary. If you’re so skeptical of his summary, just listen to it. Is there any reason you choose to hold the Vox summary more valid than Fiveyearlurker’s? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1096 "2017-12-05T17:08:57Z")
It’s a lot easier to type out a few sentences here and there than listen to a 15 minute podcast. FYL could be right about the podcast for all I know. All I said is that the fact that he’s misrepresenting the Vox summary doesn’t lend itself to confidence in his assessment of the podcast. But you never know. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1097 "2017-12-05T17:11:51Z")
Trump’s lawyer [uses](https://www.boredpanda.com/donald-trump-lawyer-uses-comic-sans-ty-cobb/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=link&utm_campaign=BPFacebook) comic sans. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1098 "2017-12-05T17:30:11Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > Trump’s lawyer [uses](https://www.boredpanda.com/donald-trump-lawyer-uses-comic-sans-ty-cobb/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=link&utm_campaign=BPFacebook) comic sans. Comic Sans should be required for all trump related releases. It’s appropriate… ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1099 "2017-12-05T17:47:12Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Uh oh. [Manafort’s bail conditions are going to be re-visited](http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/04/politics/manafort-bail-russian-intelligence/index.html) > > Not a big deal though. I’m sure it’s a “nothingburger” for those 30% of the population who effectively think that it’s fine if Russia runs the United States. Yeah, the same ones who yell “USA USA”, wave the flag and like to say “love it or leave it”, while calling everyone else a traitor. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1100 "2017-12-05T17:52:18Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Mueller has [subpoenaed Deutsche Bank](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/05/donald-trump-bank-records-handed-over-robert-mueller) to get Trump’s personal finances. Deutsche Bank has had some questionable dealings with Trump, so this could get Trump’s dander up a bit. > > I can’t wait to hear how Trump isn’t personally under investigation. But, just his past and present business partners, his bank records, his family and all of his associates. But not Trump himself. … and his family. What’s nice about this is, Meuller could easily share the info with various state attorney generals to help in their investigations. Trump can’t pardon shit at the state level, only at the federal level. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=54) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=56)