# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 578
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11543 "2019-05-29T22:11:40Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > Cute…Although even it doesn’t really capture the full measure of it, since the technicality is that the President can’t be found guilty as a matter of principle…It’s not just any technicality. It’s a nice gig, if you can get it. Bibi apparently wanted same deal, but, instead, now he has to stand for elections again. “Mr. Netanyahu’s party recently introduced a bill that would grant him immunity from criminal prosecution as he faces bribery and fraud charges related to three corruption probes. “- WSJ ---
**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11544 "2019-05-30T01:05:57Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > I like both Booker and Harris, but fuck them. Take a god damn moral stand without (additional) cover. Mueller didn’t say anything he didn’t say in his report, if they had read it. I’m beginning to think that possibly Amash may be the only one in either house who did. I’ve been wracking my brain for a way to get the citizenry - maybe even Congressfolk (I can dream) - to digest at least the Mueller team’s summaries. Give 'em the Schoolhouse Rock treatment. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11545 "2019-05-30T02:10:20Z")
> [@HelenGawn](#): > > Give 'em the Schoolhouse Rock treatment. o/` I'm just a Bob. Yes, I'm only a Bob. And I'm telling you to impeach that slob. o/` ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11546 "2019-05-30T02:48:55Z")
Let’s all keep in mind that this is not a binary. There are more positions than “pro-Trump” or “pro-impeachment”. I, like Nancy Pelosi, am anti-both. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Even if Congress just questions Mueller and he repeats the words of the report, that could have tremendous value, because quotable recorded video is much more influential to the public in the short and medium term than text. True dat. > [@Aspenglow](#): > > Out of interest, how many people commenting in this thread have actually read the whole report? I have read all the executive summaries, and a fair bit beyond that (every time something seemed especially interesting, I searched the document for the details). Does that count? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11547 "2019-05-30T02:49:24Z")
I’m wondering how Mueller would answer a question like this: “Is your conclusion that the president may not be indictable the reason that you did not indict him? Is there any other reason that you did not indict him?” or, “There is a list of criteria that must be met for indicting an American citizen for obstruction of justice. [list the criteria]. One of those criteria is that the citizen must not be the sitting president. Which of those other criteria did Donald Trump’s actions meet?” ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11548 "2019-05-30T02:59:45Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’m wondering how Mueller would answer a question like this: No…He would not answer it. (Actually, in regards to the 2nd, I think he talked in the report about the 3 criteria for obstruction and at least discussed, without reaching a final conclusion, each of Trump’s potentially obstructive actions in relation to these criteria.) ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11549 "2019-05-30T03:06:31Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Justin Amash gave a town hall, where he urged impeachment. > > The crowd’s reaction? A standing O. > > [https://twitter.com/politico/status/1133534402993168384](https://twitter.com/politico/status/1133534402993168384) This is pretty awesome. Even if Amash were not located in the crucial battleground state of Michigan, he would be doing Trump a lot of damage. The things he says cannot be dismissed as simply partisan sniping. (Same reason I consider Romney to be doing a great service to the country.) ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11550 "2019-05-30T04:06:42Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > \ > > I have read all the executive summaries, and a fair bit beyond that (every time something seemed especially interesting, I searched the document for the details). Does that count? Of course it counts! I’d wager you’ve already read much more of it than most people. And thanks for answering. I’m not being judgey here. It’s a slog to get through the whole thing, and I’m not finished with it myself. My reason for going slow is because I’m taking extensive notes as I go. I’m also more focused on Volume 1 because I think it is the far more important part of the report. I already knew Trump had obstructed justice (and continues to, for that matter) and Volume 2 is much easier reading than Volume 1. Keeping all those Russians straight is a bit of an undertaking. I guess what I don’t understand is, we’ve spent 233 pages, nearly 12,000 posts, speculating about what Mueller’s report might say or not say – and yet it seems few have taken the time to read his actual words. I consider this to be an historic document, perhaps the most important of our time. I hope everyone gives it at least a cursory skim. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11551 "2019-05-30T11:01:53Z")
Keep your eye on what Justin Amash is doing. It seems insignificant, but he’s giving other conservatives permission to oppose the president. I don’t expect anyone else to follow immediately, but as Trump makes more unforced errors - and he absolutely will - it will be easier to criticize his performance, and his presidency. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11552 "2019-05-30T13:02:35Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Keep your eye on what Justin Amash is doing. It seems insignificant, but he’s giving other conservatives permission to oppose the president. I don’t expect anyone else to follow immediately, but as Trump makes more unforced errors - and he absolutely will - it will be easier to criticize his performance, and his presidency. Or maybe [he’s just an anomaly](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/05/justin-amash-impeachment-trump-republicans.html). He has no friends on either side of the aisle in Congress. I don’t think he changes anything, short term or long term. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11553 "2019-05-30T13:24:15Z")
Trump’s attacking Mueller this morning: conflicted, Comey’s best friend (love or deep-like), golf fees dispute, Never-Trumper, angry that Trump didn’t give him the FBI Director’s job… Strange that when the report first came out and Barr gave it his spin, Trump was saying Mueller was an honorable man. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11554 "2019-05-30T13:59:06Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > … and yet it seems few have taken the time to read his actual words. I consider this to be an historic document, perhaps the most important of our time. I hope everyone gives it at least a cursory skim. Guilty. But here’s the thing, Trump is obviously unhinged, and continues to dig his hole deeper every dam day. He is so obviously a lying immoral crook that I don’t think it’s necessary reading. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11555 "2019-05-30T14:27:41Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > Or maybe [he’s just an anomaly](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/05/justin-amash-impeachment-trump-republicans.html). He has no friends on either side of the aisle in Congress. I don’t think he changes anything, short term or long term. He might not have friends, but he at least has some principles, and he plants the seed in the minds of lawmakers that it’s okay to criticize the Trump cult. Like I said, no movement now, but it’s something for others to build on when the time is right. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11556 "2019-05-30T14:56:03Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Guilty. But here’s the thing, Trump is obviously unhinged, and continues to dig his hole deeper every dam day. He is so obviously a lying immoral crook that I don’t think it’s necessary reading. Thanks for having the courage to publicly admit it. I agree with you, Trump is obviously unhinged and unfit for the office he holds, has been from Day One. I’ve said he committed impeachable offenses on the first day he assumed the office. Moreover, I view him an illegitimate president because he gained the office through illegitimate means. It makes suffering through his appalling “presidency” all the more painful. Still, I had regarded myself as decently informed on the scope of Trump and his comrades’ involvement with the Russians in the run-up to the 2016 election. The Mueller report reveals even more than we already knew, and provides quite horrifying detail of how entrenched in our electoral process the Russians are. As Mueller pointed out yesterday in his statement, the extent of this involvement should be the concern of every American. There’s a lot of good if scary information in his report detailing this. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11557 "2019-05-30T14:56:59Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > Or maybe [he’s just an anomaly](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/05/justin-amash-impeachment-trump-republicans.html). He has no friends on either side of the aisle in Congress. I don’t think he changes anything, short term or long term. If nothing else, Amash complicates Trump’s path to winning Michigan. Amash represents Kent County, which, for my money, is where the action will be for Michigan in 2020. There are a lot of people who voted for both Amash and Trump. Moderately-wealthy old-school reformed Christian types. I know those types very well. A lot of them are disgusted by Trump, but they do like Amash’s free-market libertarianism. And Amash is _in_ the community, people know him, they like him (I’ve met him, he’s a genuinely nice dude.) If they’re already uncomfortable with what they’re seeing and hearing from Trump, Amash’s courage will move them as well. Maybe they’ll vote third party, maybe they’ll sit it out, maybe, God willing, they’ll vote for the Dem nominee. But Amash taking such a bold stand makes it that much more difficult for Trump to win Michigan again. Kent County (Grand Rapids and surrounding communities) will be ground zero in 2020. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11558 "2019-05-30T15:12:43Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’m wondering how Mueller would answer a question like this: > > “Is your conclusion that the president may not be indictable the reason that you did not indict him? Is there any other reason that you did not indict him?” > > or, > > “There is a list of criteria that must be met for indicting an American citizen for obstruction of justice. [list the criteria]. One of those criteria is that the citizen must not be the sitting president. Which of those other criteria did Donald Trump’s actions meet?” Given his reasoning so far he would answer that the reason he did not indict the president was that the president was not indictable, but would refuse to speculate as to whether there were any other reasons that one would or would not indict him if he were not the president. Basically he is saying that he can’t say whether or not Vinnie the knife should be accused of murder, all he can do is report that Vinnie was seen standing over the body covered in blood saying “at last I got the bastard”. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11559 "2019-05-30T15:15:45Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > The Mueller report reveals even more than we already knew, and provides quite horrifying detail of **how entrenched in our electoral process the Russians are.** > > As Mueller pointed out yesterday in his statement, the extent of this involvement should be the concern of every American. There’s a lot of good if scary information in his report detailing this. This cannot be understated. The Russians have infiltrated our political system, not through spying, but because the Supreme Court’s decision in Citizens United essentially allowed dark money to become a huge factor in elections. The Russian oligarchy has used the global system of finance and the global communications – basically very open systems – and they have weaponized them against us. They have very likely purchased out-sized influence in the American political system using the Republican party and their plutocratic interests that they represent as a vehicle. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11560 "2019-05-30T15:23:14Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > If nothing else, Amash complicates Trump’s path to winning Michigan. Amash represents Kent County, which, for my money, is where the action will be for Michigan in 2020. Even if Amash only ran in Michigan as an independent, he would screw Trump over immensely. Let’s see if he puts his money where his mouth is. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11561 "2019-05-30T15:40:02Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > There are a lot of people who voted for both Amash and Trump. Moderately-wealthy old-school reformed Christian types. I know those types very well. A lot of them are disgusted by Trump, but they do like Amash’s free-market libertarianism. And Amash is _in_ the community, people know him, they like him (I’ve met him, he’s a genuinely nice dude.) If they’re already uncomfortable with what they’re seeing and hearing from Trump, Amash’s courage will move them as well. Maybe they’ll vote third party, maybe they’ll sit it out, maybe, God willing, they’ll vote for the Dem nominee. The “Maybe they’ll vote third party” possibility expands considerably if it turns out that Amash is laying the groundwork to run as the Libertarian candidate. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11562 "2019-05-30T15:49:33Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > \*\*This cannot be understated. \*\*The Russians have infiltrated our political system, not through spying, but because the Supreme Court’s decision in Citizens United essentially allowed dark money to become a huge factor in elections. The Russian oligarchy has used the global system of finance and the global communications – basically very open systems – and they have weaponized them against us. They have very likely purchased out-sized influence in the American political system using the Republican party and their plutocratic interests that they represent as a vehicle. My bold. I think you meant “This cannot be _overstated_.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=577) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=579)