# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 579
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11563 "2019-05-30T15:54:30Z")
Let’s see. On a partisan scale of 1 to 10, I would put Hannity as an 11 and Mueller as a 0. [Sean Hannity called Robert Mueller ‘full of crap’ and said the former FBI boss ‘doesn’t know the law’](https://www.businessinsider.com/hannity-says-mueller-full-of-crap-doesnt-know-law-2019-5) > [@](#): > > The Fox News opinion host Sean Hannity on Wednesday night launched into a furious attack on Robert Mueller, saying the former FBI director who led the special counsel’s Russia investigation “doesn’t know the law” and is “basically full of crap.” > > … > > “Now today he officially resigned from the office of special counsel but not before showing the world, of course, what we already know on this program — his partisan-hackery true colors if you will,” a visibly angry Hannity said. > > “We have a career bureaucrat, nothing more than a Trump-hating partisan who is now all but cheering for impeachment based on nothing.” > > “Number one, Robert Mueller doesn’t know the law — he’s basically full of crap,” Hannity said. > > Before being named special counsel in charge of the Department of Justice and FBI’s Russia investigation, Mueller spent 12 years as head of the FBI, ending his term in 2013. Before then he spent several decades as an attorney and law-enforcement official. Can someone remind me where Hannity got his law degree? [Oh, wait](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Hannity): > [@](#): > > Hannity attended Sacred Heart Seminary in Hempstead, New York, during his middle school years and St. Pius X Preparatory Seminary high school in Uniondale, New York.[10] He attended New York University, UC Santa Barbara, and Adelphi University, but did not graduate.[9][11][12] Hannity attended college for two years, dropping out due to financial issues. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11564 "2019-05-30T16:02:23Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > My bold. > > I think you meant “This cannot be _overstated_.” :o Yes. Can I hire you as my editor? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11565 "2019-05-30T16:12:30Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Let’s see. On a partisan scale of 1 to 10, I would put Hannity as an 11 and Mueller as a 0. > > [Sean Hannity called Robert Mueller ‘full of crap’ and said the former FBI boss ‘doesn’t know the law’](https://www.businessinsider.com/hannity-says-mueller-full-of-crap-doesnt-know-law-2019-5) > > Can someone remind me where Hannity got his law degree? > > [Oh, wait](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Hannity): That is just embarrassing. What a Loser with a capital “L.” :smack: > [@asahi](#): > > :o > > Yes. > > Can I hire you as my editor? It’ll cost ya. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11566 "2019-05-30T16:25:55Z")
If you read the report, one of the more interesting subplots is the relationship between Manafort and Russian oligarchs, including Oleg Deripaska, who threatened him with a lawsuit. Apparently Manafort tried to play big shot investor and fell flat on his ass and took some other people’s money with him. Russian oligarchs had leverage on Manafort, and Manafort in return leveraged his relationships (particularly Trump) as a way to climb out of his hole. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11567 "2019-05-30T16:26:01Z")
Hannity failed Jesuit Logic 101. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11568 "2019-05-30T17:02:17Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > That is just embarrassing. What a Loser with a capital “L.” :smack: > [@elucidator](#): > > Hannity failed Jesuit Logic 101. You are assuming that his viewers are not cribbing his notes. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11569 "2019-05-30T17:05:30Z")
CNN [tells it like it is](https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1134101489138503682) with the chyron: “TRUMP UNLEASHES FLURRY OF LIES AFTER MUELLER STATEMENT” > [@dasmoocher](#): > > Can someone remind me where Hannity got his law degree? > > [Oh, wait](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Hannity): I was going to guess “Trump University”. ---
**Author:** ![racepug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@racepug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racepug)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11570 "2019-05-30T17:42:03Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Let’s see. On a partisan scale of 1 to 10, I would put Hannity as an 11 and Mueller as a 0. > > [Sean Hannity called Robert Mueller ‘full of crap’ and said the former FBI boss ‘doesn’t know the law’](https://www.businessinsider.com/hannity-says-mueller-full-of-crap-doesnt-know-law-2019-5) > > Can someone remind me where Hannity got his law degree? > > [Oh, wait](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Hannity): I’ve always felt that Sean Flim-Flammity is Drumpf’s biggest suck-up (at least on the FOX Right Wing Propaganda Machine) but apparently the person that Drumpf, himself, feels is “my biggest friend” on FOX is Steve Doocy from “FOX and Fiends” (don’t correct me if I spelled his last name wrong. I couldn’t care less whether I did or not). Or so “people say.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11571 "2019-05-30T18:36:31Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I got four takaways: > > - Trump was not charged with obstruction because he is the president. This is the only reason. > > - Mueller’s report speaks for itself, and he won’t make any other comments beyond the report, to the public or to congress > > **- The investigators and the FBI did a great job, they are patriots, and any “investigation of the investigators” is wrong.** > > - The Russians made systematic efforts to interfere in the US election, and this should be taken VERY seriously by everyone. I have seen the media make the same interpretations of the three items that I didn’t bold. What part of the press conference do you think directly or even indirectly spoke critically of the announced investigation into the investigation? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11572 "2019-05-30T18:40:45Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > I have seen the media make the same interpretations of the three items that I didn’t bold. What part of the press conference do you think directly or even indirectly spoke critically of the announced investigation into the investigation? True - the part after mueller’s “The FBI and investigators did a great job” is my editorializing. I do think it was implied though, and there was a solid reason Mueller brought it up. That reason being Trump’s slagging of them, and Barr’s troubling moves to investigate the investigation. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11573 "2019-05-31T02:37:15Z")
Was just reading a news analysis in the New York Times ([https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/29/us/politics/mueller-barr.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/29/us/politics/mueller-barr.html)) and it made me realize that reporters have a hard time not distorting Mueller’s carefully-worded statements. I know that they like to paraphrase rather than quote extensively but I think in this case, it does do a disservice. For example, they say, > [@](#): > > He said that Mr. Barr had acted in “good faith” by choosing not to release summaries of the report drafted by Mr. Mueller’s team, despite his entreaties that a March 24 letter from the attorney general, … What Mueller actually said was > [@](#): > > And I certainly do not question the attorney general’s good faith in that decision. To me, that is a fair bit different. The Times makes it sound like Mueller is saying that he definitively knows that Barr acted in good faith, whereas what Mueller actually said was really not that. (I am sort of reminded of that quote, “Don’t attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence”…I.e., Mueller is choosing to charitably believe the best about Barr, not stating definitively that Barr was in fact acting in good faith.) I wish they would just use longer quotes in these things. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11574 "2019-05-31T04:58:44Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > How long after Mueller’s statement (no matter WHAT he says) will it take for Donnie erupt in a geyser of Twitter insults, rage, disclaimers, and lies? Okay, it took him a day… “Trump Accuses Mueller of a Personal Vendetta as Calls for Impeachment Grow” > **[Trump Accuses Mueller of a Personal Vendetta as Calls for Impeachment Grow...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/30/us/politics/trump-russia-help-elected.html)** > > President Trump dismissed comments from Robert S. Mueller III, the special counsel, that the Russia inquiry did not clear the president of wrongdoing. “He’s somebody that dislikes Donald Trump.” > [@](#): > > COLORADO SPRINGS — President Trump lashed out angrily at Robert S. Mueller III on Thursday, accusing him of pursuing a personal vendetta as Mr. Trump sought to counter increasing calls among Democrats for his impeachment. > > A day after Mr. Mueller, the special counsel, spoke out for the first time and refused to exonerate the president, Mr. Trump dismissed the Mueller investigation as hopelessly tarnished and expressed aggravation that he could not shake allegations of wrongdoing that have dogged him since the early days of his administration. > > “I think he is a total conflicted person,” Mr. Trump said of Mr. Mueller before flying to Colorado to deliver the commencement address at the Air Force Academy. “I think Mueller is a true Never Trumper. He’s somebody that dislikes Donald Trump. He’s somebody that didn’t get a job that he requested that he wanted very badly, and then he was appointed.” > … ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11575 "2019-05-31T10:31:11Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Hannity failed Jesuit Logic 101. I was listening to Hannity’s radio show yesterday\* and both he and Newt Gingrich (who sounded like he’s about 90 years old, btw) were ranting on like a bunch of senile old men in a dementia ward about how basically the whole Justice Department under Eric Holder and Loretta Lynch had committed a form of treason and needed to be investigated. White male faux victimization complex was on full display. \*I sometimes listen to right wing propaganda just to hear what kind of nasty magic mushroom shit they’re tripping on about. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11576 "2019-05-31T14:32:07Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > What Mueller actually said was > > > [@](#): > > > > And I certainly do not question the attorney general’s good faith in that decision. Which of course means “Barr’s a damn liar or I wouldn’t even have had to say that.” ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11577 "2019-05-31T19:25:59Z")
I don’t understand how Individual 1 would attack Mueller if he thinks that Mueller is proving him innocent. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11578 "2019-06-03T20:16:14Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > The way I parsed the story — it is possibly Nader did leave the US - because he doesn’t live there and if he was rushing to miss his flight or something one might say he fled. > And the kiddie porn stuff dates from 1985, so anything that happened in the last 33 years happened after that. > > So maybe technically true, but still… You can now change “in the last 33 years” to “today”: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/figure-linked-to-trump-transition-charged-with-transporting-child-pornography/2019/06/03/caee8aca-862a-11e9-98c1-e945ae5db8fb\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/figure-linked-to-trump-transition-charged-with-transporting-child-pornography/2019/06/03/caee8aca-862a-11e9-98c1-e945ae5db8fb_story.html)? **Figure linked to Trump transition charged with transporting child pornography** > [@](#): > > A key witness in former special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s investigation of Russian election interference has been charged with transporting child pornography last year, according to court documents. > > George Nader, who had a previous criminal record on such charges, was charged in federal court in Virginia, and is expected to make an initial court appearance in New York. > > Nader played an unusual role as a kind of liaison between Trump supporters, Middle East leaders and Russians interested in making contact with the incoming administration in early 2017. > > Officials said Nader, 60, was charged by criminal complaint over material he was traveling with when he arrived at Washington-Dulles International Airport on Jan. 17, 2018, from Dubai. At the time, he was carrying a cellphone containing visual depictions of minors engaged in sexually explicit conduct, officials said. The charges were unsealed after his arrest Monday morning at John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11579 "2019-06-03T20:29:22Z")
Seth Abramson’s take on the above: > [@](#): > > My take on George Nader’s arrest: you don’t pull out a sealed indictment from January 2018 unless your cooperation agreement with Nader has broken down in a Manafort-like way. The feds are applying the screws to Nader now—and it’s because of what he knows. I wrote yesterday—see pinned tweet—that the election-interference probes continue. I noted that Nader is at the center of them. And now the feds—who’d said Nader is cooperating—are charging him with a felony that may put him in prison for many years. The math on this is clear. he odds are now good that we’ll find out that two of the men at the center of the Trump [non-conspiracy collusion] story—the investigation of which is very much ongoing—have made a similar decision: to go to prison rather than tell all. And that’d tell us all we need to know. > ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11580 "2019-06-03T20:59:43Z")
Ideally, there’s a second probe of Trump that is still ongoing, somewhere in the FBI. Team Trump never made a deal with Putin, but I think that there’s pretty good evidence that they did make one with Saudi Arabia (through Tom Barrack) and Nader would be part of that. It’s unclear how Nader got free of the feds, back after Mueller interviewed him the first time, but I think it’s fair to say that whatever levers were moved to let him go last time are going to be a lot harder to shift when kiddie-porn is in the mix. That’s the immovable object of crime. (Unless you’re Jeffrey Epstein.) ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11581 "2019-06-03T21:07:44Z")
[The House Judiciary Committee is getting hearings underway on Mueller’s findings starting on June 10th](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-congress-mueller/house-judiciary-committee-to-hold-june-10-hearing-on-mueller-report-idUSKCN1T42M0): (Reuters) > [@](#): > > The Democrat-controlled U.S. House of Representatives Judiciary Committee will hold a hearing on June 10 on Robert Mueller’s report on Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election and its connections to Donald Trump’s campaign. The committee will hear testimony from former U.S. attorneys and legal experts, including John Dean, a Trump critic and former White House counsel to President Richard Nixon who served a year in prison in connection with the Watergate scandal. “We have learned so much even from the redacted version of Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report,” Committee Chairman Jerrold Nadler said in a statement." ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11582 "2019-06-03T22:23:31Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > [The House Judiciary Committee is getting hearings underway on Mueller’s findings starting on June 10th](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-congress-mueller/house-judiciary-committee-to-hold-june-10-hearing-on-mueller-report-idUSKCN1T42M0): (Reuters) There’s been some predictable scorn on Twitter about Dean’s appearance. But Dean’s testimony can be used to drive home the point that it’s NOT traditional to let presidents get away with violating our laws. The wording of the announcement was smart. If the hearings actually happen as the announcement implies–meaning that they have some teeth in publicizing what’s in the largely-unread Mueller report, with attention-getting witnesses and substantive questioning–then the dangers of officially declaring ‘impeachment proceedings’ may be averted. As soon as it’s official that impeachment is underway, the GOP/GRU/IRA social media machine\* will swing into high gear with _ **Vote Now Vote Now Vote Now Vote Now** _ being the unavoidable and high-volume message. Get this matter over to the Senate so Trump can be acquitted and all further calls for investigation can be quashed with a hearty ‘_you had your chance and he was proven innocent!_’ So putting that off as long as possible is smart (for the side that wants Trump gone, anyway). Good on Nadler. Now he has to come through with some hearings that will make the news. \*No, not a contractual entity—just a defacto cooperative orientation by these anti-democracy outfits. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=578) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=580)