# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 594
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2019, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11863 "2019-07-24T16:15:52Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Full exchange that I posted earlier without the ellipses. > > LIEU: “To recap what we’ve heard, we have heard today that the president ordered former White House counsel Don McGahn to fire you. The president ordered Don McGahn to then cover that up and create a false paper trail, and now we’ve heard the president ordered Corey Lewandowski to tell Jeff Sessions to limit your investigation so that he – you stop investigating the president. I believe a reasonable person looking at these facts could conclude that all three elements of the crime of obstruction of justice have been met, and I would like to ask you the reason again that you did not indict Donald Trump is because of OLC opinion stating that you cannot indict a sitting president, correct?” > > MUELLER: “That is correct.” Quoting this just in case **Shodan** missed it. **Shodan** , you were incorrect about this. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2019, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11864 "2019-07-24T17:15:44Z")
Ted Lieu: “You did not indict Donald Trump is because of the OLC opinion stating that you cannot indict a sitting president, correct?” MUELLER: “That is correct.” Going to be posting this exchange endlessly in the coming months. Trump is going to be indicted the moment he leaves office. And not just by the Feds, but by several states. He can’t even hope to resign and get Pence to pardon him, because Pence can’t possibly know all of the charges and pardon him for them and he can’t pardon Trump for state crimes. Plus the fact that Pence would never win the 2020 election and would likely be primaried heavily. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2019, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11865 "2019-07-24T17:28:05Z")
A clarification from Mueller on the response to Leiu, sort of: “Now before we go to questions, I want to go back to one thing that was said this morning by Mr. Lieu, who said, and I quote, ‘You didn’t charge the president because of the OLC opinion.’ That is not the correct way to say it. As we say in the report, and as I said at the opening, we did not reach a determination as to whether the president committed a crime. With that, Mr. Chairman, I’m ready to answer questions.” So it was still about the OLC opinion, but if I’m reading it right he’s saying that due to the OLC opinion, they were not able to reach a determineation as to whether the President committed a crime. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2019, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11866 "2019-07-24T17:37:54Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > A clarification from Mueller on the response to Leiu, sort of: > > “Now before we go to questions, I want to go back to one thing that was said this morning by Mr. Lieu, who said, and I quote, ‘You didn’t charge the president because of the OLC opinion.’ That is not the correct way to say it. As we say in the report, and as I said at the opening, we did not reach a determination as to whether the president committed a crime. With that, Mr. Chairman, I’m ready to answer questions.” > > So it was still about the OLC opinion, but if I’m reading it right he’s saying that due to the OLC opinion, they were not able to reach a determineation as to whether the President committed a crime. He didn’t say he wasn’t able to, just that he did not. He also doesn’t explain why he did not and he did not state that it was because of the OLC opinion. IOW he stands by the report. It was either a Freudian slip, an intentional nugget left there for anti-Trumpers, or an honest mistake. ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2019, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11867 "2019-07-24T17:39:51Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > A clarification from Mueller on the response to Leiu, sort of: > > “Now before we go to questions, I want to go back to one thing that was said this morning by Mr. Lieu, who said, and I quote, ‘You didn’t charge the president because of the OLC opinion.’ That is not the correct way to say it. As we say in the report, and as I said at the opening, we did not reach a determination as to whether the president committed a crime. With that, Mr. Chairman, I’m ready to answer questions.” > > So it was still about the OLC opinion, but if I’m reading it right he’s saying that due to the OLC opinion, they were not able to reach a determineation as to whether the President committed a crime. Nitpicking, if I may: not even that they could not have made that determination on the basis of the facts, simply that they were not permitted to. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2019, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11868 "2019-07-24T17:49:03Z")
What is meant by “I take your question”? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2019, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11869 "2019-07-24T17:52:16Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > What is meant by “I take your question”? He’s done it before for long, kind of nonsensical questions; I think it means “I’m not going to answer that silly question”. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2019, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11870 "2019-07-24T17:58:56Z")
Also new from Mueller, or at least it wasn’t explicitly clear until now: Manafort shared campaign and polling data with Kilimnik because he hoped to get paid by Russian/Ukrainian oligarchs. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2019, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11871 "2019-07-24T18:02:56Z")
Mueller confirms that Trump attempted to suborn McGahn into Perjury, another crime. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2019, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11872 "2019-07-24T18:32:10Z")
> [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](#): > > Nitpicking, if I may: not even that they could not have made that determination on the basis of the facts, simply that they were not permitted to. If that’s what Mueller meant why didn’t he say anything like that? ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2019, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11873 "2019-07-24T18:58:14Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > If that’s what Mueller meant why didn’t he say anything like that? He did. You are just too dense to understand. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2019, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11874 "2019-07-24T22:09:43Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Hope this clear things up for you **Shodan**. > > Lieu: “The reason you did not indict Donald Trump… is because of the OLC decision. Is that correct?” > > Mueller: “That is correct.” > [@JohnT](#): > > Also: > > Rep. Buck: You believe the President of the United States could be charged with obstruction of justice after he left office? > > Mueller: Yes. “Fake news!” will lead the stream of twit in reaction to this. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2019, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11875 "2019-07-24T22:15:57Z")
Personally, I think that Schiff’s final set of questions were the most important to the whole thing and what most needs to be heard. They’re also ones that Mueller answered. Regrettably, I expect the Democrats and the media to drop that ball on that. For the record: > **[Accepting foreign intel is unethical, unpatriotic, and in certain instances...](https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/watch/accepting-foreign-intel-is-unethical-unpatriotic-and-in-certain-instances-a-crime-mueller-agrees-with-schiff-64463429792)** > > In the closing moments of the second hearing with former Special Counsel Robert Mueller, Rep. Adam Schiff and Mueller agree that accepting foreign intelligence during a presidential campaign is unethical, unpatriotic, and in certain instances "it’s a... ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2019, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11876 "2019-07-24T23:18:01Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > “Fake news!” will lead the stream of twit in reaction to this. It’s already started: > [@Special Counsel Robert Mueller testifies before Congress](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-counsel-robert-mueller-testifies-before-congress/837542/141): > > Just heard on AP Radio News a clip of the current occupant of the White House saying Mueller made a fake appearance. > > Reminds me of 9/11 Truthers: it was all done with holograms! ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11877 "2019-07-25T02:16:05Z")
This quote, this exchange might be the most important of the day: > **[Republican Ken Buck Scores Massive Own Goal in Mueller Questioning](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/robert-mueller-ken-buck-hearing-trump-obstruction-862902/)** > > Thanks to Republican Ken Buck, Mueller is on the record saying that a sitting president could be indicted post-presidency for obstruction > [@](#): > > Buck went on: “You believe that he committed — you could charge the President of the United States with obstruction of justice after he left office?” > > “Yes,” Mueller said again. This is why the president is desperate to win next year. He is fighting for his survival, and he will only get nastier. Think you’ve seen racism now? You’ve seen nothing. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11878 "2019-07-25T02:27:21Z")
Not to put too fine a point on it but… Mueller could very well be interpreting that in the broader sense. That is, no President can be indicted while in office, but any President may be indicted as soon as he leaves. IIRC, he made that very clarification. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11879 "2019-07-25T04:06:47Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Not to put too fine a point on it but… Mueller could very well be interpreting that in the broader sense. That is, no President can be indicted while in office, but any President may be indicted as soon as he leaves. IIRC, he made that very clarification. I think you’re right. I thought that when he said it. ---
**Author:** ![Personal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Personal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Personal)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11880 "2019-07-25T04:23:25Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Not to put too fine a point on it but… Mueller could very well be interpreting that in the broader sense. That is, no President can be indicted while in office, but any President may be indicted as soon as he leaves. IIRC, he made that very clarification. That’s how I took it too. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11881 "2019-07-25T14:28:54Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Quoting this just in case **Shodan** missed it. **Shodan** , you were incorrect about this. Mueller was incorrect about this. Fortunately, he later corrected himself. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/11882 "2019-07-25T15:09:26Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Mueller was incorrect about this. Fortunately, he later corrected himself. > > Regards, > Shodan So when will you correct yourself? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=593) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=595)