# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/101 "2017-10-30T14:28:44Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Get the nothingburger combo, it’s a better deal. > > GOP apologists will be dancing in the streets, this particular indictment doesn’t seem to be campaign related. I’m sure this is the first of many indictments to many people, some of which will be campaign related and some of which will not. Oh, yeah. This is going to drag out and no the fun for the GOP sooner or later. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/102 "2017-10-30T14:29:39Z")
That’s a lot of felonies. I wonder what Manafort might have to offer in a deal. ---
**Author:** ![lazybratsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ba8739/32.png) [@lazybratsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lazybratsche)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/103 "2017-10-30T14:34:57Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Link: [https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4163402/Papadopoulos-Statement-Offense.pdf](https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4163402/Papadopoulos-Statement-Offense.pdf) Whelp, I’m not getting any work done today. The TL;DR seems to be that Papadopoulos plead guilty to lying to the FBI about not having any substantial contacts with Russia. In reality, he was involved in several contacts between the Trump campaign and Russians with government connections, including discussions with “Putin’s niece” “to arrange a meeting between between us and the Russian leadership”. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/104 "2017-10-30T14:38:08Z")
> [@lazybratsche](#): > > Whelp, I’m not getting any work done today. > > The TL;DR seems to be that Papadopoulos plead guilty to lying to the FBI about not having any substantial contacts with Russia. In reality, he was involved in several contacts between the Trump campaign and Russians with government connections, including discussions with “Putin’s niece” “to arrange a meeting between between us and the Russian leadership”. And the rest of the campaign was aware of this. Depending on who the other members of the campaign are, that means there were a shit ton of lies told be other campaign members too. Depending on who they told them to, those would be crimes as well. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/105 "2017-10-30T14:42:57Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > So, you’re enjoying some _relish_ on your “nothing burger”? 🙂 _I like mine with lettuce and tomato Heinz 57 and french fried potatoes Big kosher pickle and a cold draft beer Well, Good God Almighty which way do I steer_ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/106 "2017-10-30T14:46:58Z")
Well, Manafort looks guilty. Plus he’s a Republican. He’s doomed until Trump pardons him next week. Anyone offering odds on the pardon? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/107 "2017-10-30T14:49:27Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Well, Manafort looks guilty. Plus he’s a Republican. He’s doomed until Trump pardons him next week. > Anyone offering odds on the pardon? Don’t think so. Manafort is already solidly under the bus. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/108 "2017-10-30T14:50:31Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > So, you’re enjoying some _relish_ on your “nothing burger”? 🙂 > [@RTFirefly](#): > > _I like mine with lettuce and tomato > Heinz 57 and french fried potatoes > Big kosher pickle and a cold draft beer > Well, Good God Almighty which way do I steer_ > > 😃 Speaking of which, this morning, Fox News is covering [the Emoji Cheeseburger crisis at Google](https://twitter.com/jnsanchez/status/924983501035851776/photo/1). Seriously. It’ll be interesting to see how Fox News tries to play this, and how much they try to simply not cover it. I’d love to see stats on how much time each of the nets spent on Manafort this morning. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/109 "2017-10-30T14:53:10Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Don’t think so. Manafort is already solidly under the bus. Oh, a blanket pardon is still coming. I’d say…60% chance. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/110 "2017-10-30T14:56:40Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Well, Manafort looks guilty. Plus he’s a Republican. He’s doomed until Trump pardons him next week. > Anyone offering odds on the pardon? I just don’t think that pardon – or any other – would ultimately stand. A pardon offered in the commission of a felony, meaning obstruction, would not be a proper pardon. The issue hasn’t been litigated but it would be, with a fairly predictable outcome. Manafort must know this. Coupled with his vulnerability to state charges, Manafort really doesn’t have a lot of reason to trust or rely on Trump, and Trump doesn’t have any reason to pardon Manafort. If Trump panics and hits the pardon button, I expect him to do it when Kushner or Ivanka is charged. So re Manafort, I believe the odds are long. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/111 "2017-10-30T14:57:40Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > But really, who has’t laundered millions of dollars at some point in their lives? I accidentally laundered two bucks in one of my laundry loads last month. What do I get? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/112 "2017-10-30T14:59:16Z")
On CNN, Jack Kingston first emphasized that Papadopoulos was never a member of the Administration and his role in the campaign was just an inflated title. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/113 "2017-10-30T15:05:22Z")
Its interesting that Papadopoulos has already plead guilty. That presumably means he has a plea deal in his pocket, which (hope, hope, hope) may include spilling more beans. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/114 "2017-10-30T15:05:42Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > On CNN, Jack Kingston first emphasized that Papadopoulos was never a member of the Administration and his role in the campaign was just an inflated title. Not that his role in the campaign really matters given the content of the allegations, but he was one of like four names Trump could come up with when asked about his foreign policy team. ---
**Author:** ![Randolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Randolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randolph)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/115 "2017-10-30T15:09:03Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > I accidentally laundered two bucks in one of my laundry loads last month. What do I get? You’re now in charge of rebuilding Puerto Rico’s power grid. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/116 "2017-10-30T15:09:39Z")
So basically the Trump campaign knew that Russian intelligence had dirt on Clinton before they changed the GOP platform to benefit Russia. Huh. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/117 "2017-10-30T15:11:33Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > I accidentally laundered two bucks in one of my laundry loads last month. What do I get? Oh sure, done that lots of times. I’ve even laundered other peoples money. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/118 "2017-10-30T15:13:48Z")
Does this mean the Trump campaign knew that Podesta had been hacked before the FBI and Podesta knew? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/119 "2017-10-30T15:15:05Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I just don’t think that pardon – or any other – would ultimately stand. A pardon offered in the commission of a felony, meaning obstruction, would not be a proper pardon. The issue hasn’t been litigated but it would be, with a fairly predictable outcome. Manafort must know this. Coupled with his vulnerability to state charges, Manafort really doesn’t have a lot of reason to trust or rely on Trump, and Trump doesn’t have any reason to pardon Manafort. > > If Trump panics and hits the pardon button, I expect him to do it when Kushner or Ivanka is charged. > > So re Manafort, I believe the odds are long. Manafort is 68 or so. All he has to do is tie this up in an appeal process, whether it is related to a pardon or one of the charges. The appeal will probably outlive him and he knows it. A good choice to throw under the bus really. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/120 "2017-10-30T15:16:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Based on everything in the public record thus far, he’s got no real way to do that. > > Although . . . > > . . . I’ll direct your attention to earlier conversations on this board, in which several commentators asserted confidently that any time a foreign citizen contributed valuable information to a campaign, this was illegal. > > You may remember that I disagreed, saying such a reading of the statute was violative f the First Amendment. > > Now I am hearing reports that the “dossier” was prepared by a foreign citizen and used by the Clinton campaign against Trump. > > I still say that such a use, if it indeed happened, would be perfectly legal and protected by the First Amendment. > > Does anyone who felt it was illegal wish to revisit their analysis? The funding for the dossier OPRIGINALLY came from conservative Republicans, not the Clinton camp. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=7)