# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 606
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12103 "2019-11-08T03:31:30Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > (He gets it. 😃 Hey Mikey, he gets it!) Even Richard Nixon has got it…soul. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12104 "2019-11-08T19:48:42Z")
[Darren Samuelsohn](https://twitter.com/dsamuelsohn), _Politico_, is a good person to follow for Roger Stone trial updates. Bannon is currently on the stand. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12105 "2019-11-08T20:02:48Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > [Darren Samuelsohn](https://twitter.com/dsamuelsohn), _Politico_, is a good person to follow for Roger Stone trial updates. Bannon is currently on the stand. Can you imagine that scene. One loathsome douchebag railroading the other loathsome douchebag. It’s like a mob trial with informants trying to out-ratfuck each other. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12106 "2019-11-08T21:53:06Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > 1. You have no idea of what it might accomplish at all. Maybe donald will run rings around those high tone lawyers. Maybe not? But why are you so triggered by it? Why am I so triggered? Well… > [@bobot](#): > > Conspiracy. That’s cool. Nobody is or has claimed there was a conspiracy. Did Mueller conspire with Trump? And you call someone else insane? No, there was just one man who tried to do his best, but he could not. No conspiracy theories, eh? For your perusal: > [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Yeah, I’m pretty pissed off at Robert “If we had found that the President did not rob the bank at gunpoint we would’ve said so” Mueller. I’m thinking he was in the bag for Trump all along. And now that Trump and the DOJ are trying to discredit the Russian interference conclusion, it’s like that asshole has dropped off the face of the earth. > > There’s good stuff in the Mueller report. And I think Mueller knew that the best way to bury that stuff was to hide it inside an 800 page document that was so deliberately boring that no one could possibly read it. Then answer every question you are asked with “It’s somewhere in my report”. So I think Mueller has, by omission, has weighed in pretty solidly on the “Better Russian than Democrat” side of the equation. I am “triggered” by the fact that in our desperate search for order and meaning to the universe, we’ve decided to throw what is _undoubtedly_ a rigidly principled man under the bus in our search for blame. Now, do I believe that randos on a message board are in a better position than experienced prosecutor Robert Mueller in determining, based on the evidence that only Robert Mueller fully knows, whether getting a liar in a room to lie for a while would be worth the four years of court action to drag him into the room? Fuck no! You dipshits are, at best, armchair lawyering, while not being laywers. You very obviously have no goddamn clue what you’re talking about, and are merely venting your angry spleens in the direction of anybody you can point a shaking finger at. I’m glad I’m not a public figure; I can only get unjustly slandered by a handful of people at a time. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12107 "2019-11-08T23:08:05Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Why am I so triggered? Well… > > No conspiracy theories, eh? For your perusal: > I am “triggered” by the fact that in our desperate search for order and meaning to the universe, we’ve decided to throw what is _undoubtedly_ a rigidly principled man under the bus in our search for blame. Now, do I believe that randos on a message board are in a better position than experienced prosecutor Robert Mueller in determining, based on the evidence that only Robert Mueller fully knows, whether getting a liar in a room to lie for a while would be worth the four years of court action to drag him into the room? Fuck no! You dipshits are, at best, armchair lawyering, while not being laywers. You very obviously have no goddamn clue what you’re talking about, and are merely venting your angry spleens in the direction of anybody you can point a shaking finger at. > > I’m glad I’m not a public figure; I can only get unjustly slandered by a handful of people at a time. Well said. I’m dismayed by watching formerly sensible posters fly off the deep end. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12108 "2019-11-08T23:35:31Z")
It is reasonable to ask if a public servant’s work product is as useful or complete as it could have been. Attempts to characterize these reasonable questions as being “off the deep end” or “armchair lawyering” (and worse, but I won’t collect more at the moment) are puzzling. Why is expressing disappointment over features of Mueller’s work and choices, somehow an occasion for name-calling and hyperbolic descriptions? Is Mueller a figure of religious veneration? If he’s not–if he is a human being–then why is it bad and wrong to examine his choices? Is the assertion here that some people may not be questioned? That, in this, they differ from mortals? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12109 "2019-11-08T23:48:20Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > It is reasonable to ask if a public servant’s work product is as useful or complete as it could have been. Sure. It’s not reasonable to ascribe conspiracy theory woo as the reason for that work not being as useful as it could be, however. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12110 "2019-11-08T23:48:40Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > It is reasonable to ask if a public servant’s work product is as useful or complete as it could have been. > > Attempts to characterize these reasonable questions as being “off the deep end” or “armchair lawyering” (and worse, but I won’t collect more at the moment) are puzzling. Why is expressing disappointment over features of Mueller’s work and choices, somehow an occasion for name-calling and hyperbolic descriptions? Is Mueller a figure of religious veneration? > > If he’s not–if he is a human being–then why is it bad and wrong to examine his choices? Is the assertion here that some people may not be questioned? That, in this, they differ from mortals? You mean, aside from the overt slandering? I see it as conflating fiction and reality (and then using that to slander). The fiction is when they use their imaginations to decide what would have happened if Mueller had acted differently. This second guessing naturally leaps to wild improbabilities with no consideration for their likelihood, because they’re not starting from the alternate behavior and working forward to conclusions, they’re starting from a desired fantasy outcome and probing backwards for possible ways it might have occurred. Little things like “facts” and “reality” are barely speed bumps in this approach - even when the resulting argument is “Trump is flagrantly ignoring subpoenas! If only Mueller had subpoena’d him it wouldn’t have come to this!” Most _certainly_ the notion that Mueller might have had good reasons for his action that they are unaware of is never considered. And so these elaborate fictional alternate universes are constructed. And then the slandering begins. Seriously, if you’re going to question somebody’s actions, these questions should spring from a factual basis. Not a fantasy one. And then, only when the facts actually support it, should the slandering begin. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12111 "2019-11-08T23:53:27Z")
If Mueller was a football player they’d call him Butterfingers. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12112 "2019-11-08T23:55:43Z")
Mueller is a 75 year old man. If he was a football player they’d call him Porcelain. Seriously people, use _facts_ when constructing your elaborate fantasies! ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2019, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12113 "2019-11-09T01:32:44Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Mueller is a 75 year old man. If he was a football player they’d call him Porcelain. > > Seriously people, use _facts_ when constructing your elaborate fantasies! He got cowed by a bully patriarchy, and his own internalized version of it? That is not elaborate, nor a fantasy. Only one poster said Mueller was dirty. But more have just said that he dropped the ball on democracy, by our lights, and it would be fair to say so out loud, in the aim of getting to justice. So go for it. Lay out how it would go if rm demanded an interview. Would dt fire him? Would it go to the scotus? If people are retarded for having a divergent view from yourself, on a matter of historical speculation, then don’t you need to lay it out? You are the one who knows (“excitedly”, in fact) not us. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2019, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12114 "2019-11-09T17:30:49Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Well said. > > I’m dismayed by watching formerly sensible posters fly off the deep end. It’s disgust and fatigue. We are sick and tired of the Trump Shit Show and the GOP Toady Shit Show. It never ends, and it keeps getting worse. We’ve had enough. Where in the blue fucking hell does it end?? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2019, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12115 "2019-11-09T22:49:58Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > It’s disgust and fatigue. We are sick and tired of the Trump Shit Show and the GOP Toady Shit Show. It never ends, and it keeps getting worse. We’ve had enough. Where in the blue fucking hell does it end?? I abso-_fucking_-lutely understand! And thank you for that totally honest answer. I believe you. I am disgusted and worn out. I’ve had enough… but there’s more to come. ☹ I don’t know where it ends, but I know we can’t let them make us lose our shit, too. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12116 "2019-11-12T15:46:04Z")
Latest from Stone trial (via [Darren Samuelsohn](https://twitter.com/dsamuelsohn/status/1194264014412566528), _Politico_): > [@](#): > > DOJ also says it still wants to show the Godfather II clip. Stone objects. Judge Jackson is inclined to show jurors the transcript from the key scene. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12117 "2019-11-12T16:58:25Z")
[Bradley P. Moss Tweets](https://twitter.com/BradMossEsq/status/1194281788916555776) about Rick Gates’ testimony from Roger Stone’s trial today. > [@](#): > > Trump denied in writing and under oath to Mueller any recollection of ever discussing WikiLeaks with Stone or being aware of Stone discussing WikiLeaks with the campaign. > > Gates testified he was in the car with Trump when he Trump talked to Stone about it. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12118 "2019-11-12T17:13:01Z")
I’m pretty sure that banana Republicans will say that perjury isn’t an impeachable offense. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12119 "2019-11-12T17:25:21Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > I’m pretty sure that banana Republicans will say that perjury isn’t an impeachable offense. Never, in the history of the Republican party, have they ever had an issue with the president lying under oath. On a completely unrelated note, here’s [Sen. McConnell’s closed-door impeachment statement](https://edition.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/02/12/senate.statements/mcconnell.html). > [@](#): > > I firmly believe that the evidence establishes beyond a reasonable doubt that William Jefferson Clinton made statements to the federal grand jury regarding the nature of his relationship with a subordinate government employee and the purpose of his post-deposition conversation with a loyal secretary that were false, misleading, and perjurious, and warrant removal from office. Thus, I find the President guilty under Article I. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12120 "2019-11-12T18:57:44Z")
People should not dis Mueller IMHO. > [@wiki](#): > > A graduate of Princeton University and New York University, Mueller served as a Marine Corps officer during the Vietnam War, receiving a Bronze Star for heroism and a Purple Heart. He subsequently attended the University of Virginia School of Law. Those are pretty good credentials. Few could match them. Ya know, sometimes ya just have had enough shit. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12121 "2019-11-12T21:00:17Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I abso-_fucking_-lutely understand! And thank you for that totally honest answer. I believe you. I am disgusted and worn out. I’ve had enough… but there’s more to come. ☹ > > I don’t know where it ends, but I know we can’t let them make us lose our shit, too. Go ahead and lose our shit, I say. The fact that people are losing their shit doesn’t mean people have thrown their hands up in the air and checked out of democracy; it’s just the opposite. It’s exasperation. It’s…rage. And rage is what this country was founded on. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12122 "2019-11-12T22:15:04Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Go ahead and lose our shit, I say. The fact that people are losing their shit doesn’t mean people have thrown their hands up in the air and checked out of democracy; it’s just the opposite. It’s exasperation. It’s…rage. > > And rage is what this country was founded on. By “losing our shit” I mean becoming irrational, out of control, destructive of those on the same side, and attacking each other, for example, accusing Mueller of being in a conspiracy to protect DJT because he didn’t say the right words. Expressing rage and disgust, yes–that is called for. Definitely. But not against those working and hoping for the same outcome, namely the removal of the Former President from office. Let’s not devour each other in our rage. I wonder if what is needed is mass demonstrations, a la the civil rights movement and anti-Vietnam war protests. I read a headline somewhere today (can’t remember where) asking why the mainstream media aren’t calling for the Former President’s resignation. Is everyone still being too polite? Are we still expecting the other side to play fair, all evidence to the contrary? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=605) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=607)