# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 609
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2019, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12163 "2019-12-10T21:37:06Z")
To be entirely fair, “cheat” is probably a slightly inaccurate word. After all, cheating isn’t a crime. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2019, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12164 "2019-12-10T21:50:56Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > To be entirely fair, “cheat” is probably a slightly inaccurate word. After all, cheating isn’t a crime. So, Trump won criminally in 2016? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2019, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12165 "2019-12-10T22:06:01Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > So, Trump won criminally in 2016? Based on the preponderance of evidence, yep! Were we officially at war at the moment it would officially be treason. The war is cold right now though (so cold we’re numb to it), so we can only call it by its unofficial term: _impeachable_. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12166 "2019-12-11T08:39:01Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Here’s the OIG review of the foundation of the Trump investigation (focusing, largely, on Carter Page as I understand it): > > [DocumentCloud](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6571529-FBI-OIG-Report.html#document/p1) I haven’t read quite everything, but there isn’t much about Mueller or his investigation. I guess that we’ll have to wait for more of the documents to be released from his crew. We did get a first official evaluation of Steele, from the vantage of people who actually have some ability to say something about it. Regrettably, there’s no easy summation and I feel like each reader would come to a different conclusion, from their read of what is offered. My take would be that Steele is fighting for good but, ultimately, is very sloppy in his approach. In his view, any information, no matter how poorly sourced, is worth writing down and handing out. And, one could say, that’s fair. He basically says that he’s doing nothing more than collecting and sharing gossip and that is, pretty literally, what he does. If that were the end of his sloppiness, one might not fault him too terribly. But, one might note other varieties of sloppiness: 1. He can’t seem to keep track of what reports he’s given to whom. 2. He’s never really sure what contractual obligations he has to any particular customer. 3. He doesn’t even perform enough analysis of what he’s told to catch even basic errors like whether or not Russia has a consulate in Florida. 4. He commentates within his reports, with no clear delineation of which thoughts are his own and which came from his source. 5. Likewise, he can’t even seem to figure out how to use a spellcheck nor come up with a system for numbering his reports that doesn’t seem arbitrary. Personal guess: Major pothead. His habits seem reminiscent of a number of people that I’ve worked with who are “extra disorganized” yet very nice and friendly. Horowitz does list a particularly large set of reports as being from a single source who we know was lying. Horowitz also has some revelations from Steele blacked out - intimating that there may have been some hits among the mass. He also has a footnote saying that he was only ever provided with a partial spreadsheet of the results of the FBI corroboration results as some part of it is too tightly secret. It’s likely that there are some things in the Steele dossier of genuine value. My gut feeling is that it was probably somewhere in the 30-40% range, not the 80% that Steele envisioned. > [@Gyrate](#): > > I’m guessing that’s a reaction to six consecutive posts by you, although it’s odd to be triggered by the one a week after the first cluster. I was expecting others to post. Maybe, usually they would have but the holidays were distracting them? At any rate, it’s fair to say that what I wrote is a wee bit shorter than the hundreds of pages of reading that I was summarizing. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12167 "2019-12-11T12:58:48Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > You’ve heard of the Mueller Report, right? The Washington Post has put out an illustrated version that’s much easier to read than the original. I highly recommend it > **[The Mueller Report Illustrated, Chapter 1: 'This Russia thing is far from over'](https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/politics/mueller-report-illustrated/chapter-one/)** > > Shortly after taking office, President Trump senses the danger from the building Russia investigation — and moves to try to contain it. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12168 "2020-02-09T04:50:53Z")
> [@TheCuse](#): > > You need help or something. Do I need help or something? What say you now? “Chill, Mueller’s got this.” “Chill, impeachments got this.” “Relax, our sacred Constitution’s got this.” No, it doesn’t. I said, “You will see.” Now, you have seen. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12169 "2020-02-09T05:08:07Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > You are full of shit. Stop being full of shit. You clearly have no idea how the executive branch of the federal government functions, nor the protections in place for rank-and-file federal employees. There are probably about two million competitive service employees at this point who Trump would like to fire, but none of them have been. > > Trump and his administration may not have any particular respect for the rule of law, but the courts and administrative apparatus of federal institutions still do, as can be easily seen by the repeated difficulties which Trump has faced implementing his extralegal domestic agenda. > > Your incessant chicken-little, sky-is-falling bullshit is tiresome, unnecessary and unsupported by any rational analysis of the facts conducted by people with a solid grasp on reality. Knock it off and calm down. Let’s talk about this now. In 2020. How do you feel now, smartass? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2020, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12170 "2020-02-10T16:07:42Z")
In a similar vein… When I started the Clusterfuck thread right after the election, many Dopers said I was overreacting, give him a chance, he’ll come around, he can’t take over the whole Executive Branch, his Cabinet will keep him in line, blahblahblah. Some said I should be banned for going overboard in my criticism. Yeah, right. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2020, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12171 "2020-02-10T16:27:34Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > In a similar vein… > > When I started the Clusterfuck thread right after the election, many Dopers said I was overreacting, give him a chance, he’ll come around, he can’t take over the whole Executive Branch, his Cabinet will keep him in line, blahblahblah. Some said I should be banned for going overboard in my criticism. Yeah, right. :dubious: When you started the Clusterfuck thread, it was in response to the fact that people, including passionate Trump haters, were fed the fuck up with the obnoxious volume of new threads you were starting, not because of you were overreacting. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2020, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12172 "2020-02-10T17:19:26Z")
Gee, given how many trump threads there are now, that no longer seems to be considered a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2020, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12173 "2020-02-10T17:25:56Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Gee, given how many trump threads there are now, that no longer seems to be considered a problem. Gee, it would be if they were all started within a 48-hour period by the same person. ---
**Author:** ![MindsEye\_Watering](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindseye_watering/32/3619_2.png) [@MindsEye\_Watering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MindsEye_Watering)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2020, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12174 "2020-02-10T18:43:08Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Gee, it would be if they were all started within a 48-hour period by the same person. Who cares? **ThelmaLou** and **asahi** had it right from the very beginning. ---
**Author:** ![Greathouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greathouse/32/2992_2.png) [@Greathouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greathouse)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2020, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12175 "2020-02-10T18:56:42Z")
> [@MindsEye\_Watering](#): > > Who cares? **ThelmaLou** and **asahi** had it right from the very beginning. Now you’ve done it. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2020, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12176 "2020-02-10T19:10:21Z")
Oh goody > **[Here's what to expect from Robert Mueller on Wednesday](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/here-s-what-expect-robert-mueller-wednesday-n1032266)** > > First Read is your briefing from "Meet the Press" and the NBC Political Unit on the day's most important political stories and why they matter. Mueller is going to testify again on Wednesday. I’m sure he’ll just twist himself into a spineless pretzel again, trying desperately to avoid saying that Trump did anything wrong. Don’t get me wrong. I don’t think he rigged the investigation. I don’t think he’s in the bag for Trump. My problem is not with his handling and the conclusions of the investigation. But his silence has pissed me off mightily in the months since the report was released. His listened to his primary conclusions, the ones that had nothing to do with Trump, get trashed. He’s listened while the Republicans have made Ukraine the villain. He’s listened to the Republican theory that the Manafort case was a hoax. He’s listened as the DOJ has threatened the investigators. I’m sure he was listening today as Trump broadly announced that Christopher Wray called the whole investigation a hoax. He’s been silent throughout the DOJ attempts to indict McCabe and Comey. I’m sorry, he needs to grow a pair and speak up. I have a slim hope that maybe he will this time. I’m sure it will be dashed, though ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2020, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12177 "2020-02-10T20:17:43Z")
That news story was from July. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2020, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12178 "2020-02-10T20:26:54Z")
Well, jeez, what’s he waiting for? ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2020, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12179 "2020-02-10T20:30:33Z")
Sorry. I was trying to track the story behind this story - Wrays recent testimony - and I can’t find it, I guess > **[Trump ridiculed for ALL CAPS freakout on FBI Director Christopher Wray: 'No...](https://www.rawstory.com/2020/02/trump-ridiculed-for-all-caps-freakout-on-fbi-director-christopher-wray-no-golf-today/)** > > President Donald Trump went off on an all-caps rant on Twitter Sunday about the Russia investigation. Trump still believes that former President Barack Obama was wiretapping his campaign. "FBI Director Christopher Wray just admitted that the FISA... ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2020, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12180 "2020-02-12T03:41:28Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > If I am glad for one thing (the one thing that is my main weapon again the Elmer Disciples like **asahi** ), it’s that almost everyone involved in this total and complete bumfuck is a total and complete idiot, pretty much without exception. IOW, I am glad that we didn’t get someone who actually knows what they are doing (when they try to screw over the rest of the country). LOL. How ya feelin’ now, big boy? And for those who ask why I’m digging up old threads, I wasn’t the one who started calling other posters out, calling them crazy, paranoid, delusional, chicken little or whatever. What I wrote about was out of a very real concern that America’s institutions wouldn’t be able to withstand what Trump and the GOP were doing to them. As I said many times before, this things take time, and you will see. Do you understand now? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2020, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12181 "2020-02-12T10:08:19Z")
Do you think this is helping? ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2020, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/12182 "2020-02-12T14:23:09Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Do you think this is helping? I’m not sure “helping” is his brand. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=608) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=610)