# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 61
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1201 "2017-12-08T15:42:59Z")
Lucy is still holding the football, but now that it looks like Charlie Brown might actually kick the ball they’re moving the goalposts. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1202 "2017-12-08T15:56:42Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > The fact that right wing media has shifted from “nothingburger” to openly attacking Mueller means they know which way this is headed. > … > [@ThelmaLou](#): > > You mean they’re not Freedom Fries any more? (I’m so behind the times…) > [@running\_coach](#): > > And they will be again. With borscht to dip them in. I’d like my nothingburger VERY WELL DONE with a side of Freedom Fries and borscht sauce. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1203 "2017-12-08T19:10:46Z")
Just an interesting piece on the [three possible theories](http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/12/08/the-unsolved-mystery-of-michael-flynns-plea-deal/)of the Flynn deal (1. Sweetheart deal means Flynn is giving up everyone (most pundits) 2. Sweetheart deal means Mueller has nothing else (McCarthy hypothesis) 3. Something in between (Bharara hypothesis)). Spoiler alert that the authors favor option 3, with the caveat that something still doesn’t make sense based on public information. "Finally, Theory 3 would explain a lot. It would explain why the agreement is so narrow (because the rest of the Flynn material has been deferred), and it would explain why Flynn is not immunized beyond the scope of the statement of offense (because he’s still actually facing future charges). But again, Flynn specifically disclaimed at his plea hearing that he had any other understanding with the government. And it remains unclear how he could cooperate with the probe with additional major criminal charges hanging over his head without jeopardizing his own legal interests and potentially incriminating himself. All of which is to say that there’s something about the Flynn plea that doesn’t make sense. There’s something important going on here that is not in the public documents and that the press has not reported. We don’t purport to know what it is. Mystery reigns." ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1204 "2017-12-08T19:11:59Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > The fact that right wing media has shifted from “nothingburger” to openly attacking Mueller means they know which way this is headed. > Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk There was a wave of attacks on Mueller shortly before the first indictments became public, too. It’s been fairly quiet until now, something is coming. Don the small hand con man has had some wins, I want my Christmas present now. Sent from my aging Galaxy S5 using my fingers ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1205 "2017-12-08T19:41:21Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Lucy is still holding the football, but now that it looks like Charlie Brown might actually kick the ball they’re moving the goalposts. That’s fine, little does she know, our plan is to kick her in the face. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1206 "2017-12-08T19:42:08Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Just an interesting piece on the [three possible theories](http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/12/08/the-unsolved-mystery-of-michael-flynns-plea-deal/)of the Flynn deal (1. Sweetheart deal means Flynn is giving up everyone (most pundits) 2. Sweetheart deal means Mueller has nothing else (McCarthy hypothesis) 3. Something in between (Bharara hypothesis)). That’s a very good article - thanks. I would add another possibility to their attempts to “square the circle”. It’s possible that Flynn wasn’t involved in anything else (e.g. collusion/conspiracy), and for that very reason doesn’t have much to offer either. But from Mueller’s perspective, he’s unwilling to immunize Flynn on anything else, since his investigation might yet turn up something very serious. But Flynn could be willing to take that risk, since he himself might know that there’s nothing else. So “Flynn’s lawyers are capable guys”, but they’re relying on what Flynn tells them when acting on his behalf, while Mueller is obviously not going to rely on any assurances from Flynn. Of course, this is all speculation about what’s possible. I have no idea. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1207 "2017-12-08T20:08:37Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I’m waiting to wake up to the headline: > > Trump declares Imperial Presidency > Pelosi and Schumer arrested, Hillary Clinton’s whereabouts unknown > Senate in disarray after new presidential emergency powers decree > > Fox News: > Trump in Charge > No need for concern, says Pence > Traitorous Democrats on the Run Not going to happen. Trump is in a position where his political power is actually much smaller than his legal power. He can do a lot of damage due to his legal authority as president, and the fact that he can scare Republicans due to having political support from a core subset of their constituency, but he doesn’t have the overwhelming popular, military, beurucratic, or clandestine agency support that one would need to successfully launch a dictatorship. His approval numbers are steady at net -20%, and although he is popular among rank and file military, his [approval among officers](https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2017/10/23/military-times-poll-what-you-really-think-about-trump/)matches that of the US as a whole. The headlines would more likely be Trump declares Imperial Presidency President flustered as orders to arrest Democratic leadership ignored. Pelosi and Schumer strongly object to newest presidential overreach to little effect. Republican senators chide president for intemperate remarks but still support his agenda. Sanders downplays statement, claims twitter account was hacked. Fake news! ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1208 "2017-12-08T21:49:32Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > That’s a very good article - thanks. > > I would add another possibility to their attempts to “square the circle”. It’s possible that Flynn wasn’t involved in anything else (e.g. collusion/conspiracy), and for that very reason doesn’t have much to offer either. But from Mueller’s perspective, he’s unwilling to immunize Flynn on anything else, since his investigation might yet turn up something very serious. But Flynn could be willing to take that risk, since he himself might know that there’s nothing else. So “Flynn’s lawyers are capable guys”, but they’re relying on what Flynn tells them when acting on his behalf, while Mueller is obviously not going to rely on any assurances from Flynn. > > Of course, this is all speculation about what’s possible. I have no idea. I find it interesting that none of the explanations explains all of the available data. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1209 "2017-12-08T23:11:49Z")
> [@Max\_Torque](#): > > Now that’s an angle I haven’t previously considered. What if the progression of the investigation produces not only indictments for the bit players, but also large and widespread asset seizure, to the extent that Donnie Two Scoops’s empire is whittled away to nothing? > > Oh, the gloriousness of that…he might literally burst a blood vessel in rage as his net worth counter ticks toward zero and he has no more assets to violate the emoluments clause with. I’m thinking along these lines… I see homeless people all the time. I give them a few dollars, because they need it. If Trump were ruined and I found him on the street begging, I’d just punch him in the face, laugh, and take whatever the fuck he had on him. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1210 "2017-12-08T23:12:58Z")
This, from FOX News, is encouraging. I mean, if FOX is against it, it must be a good thing. [“Jarrett: Mueller and his politically biased team of prosecutors need to go”](https://a.msn.com/r/2/BBGpxZx?m=en-us) > [@](#): > > Special Counsel Robert Mueller has sabotaged his own investigation of Russian meddling into the 2016 election. He has only himself to blame for ruining what could have been a credible probe. > > As I will document below, Mueller deliberately assembled a team of partisans with a history of political bias who appear determined to undo the results of the 2016 presidential election and drive President Trump from office. > > Because Mueller improperly stacked the deck of his special counsel staff with biased crusaders, he transformed what was supposed to be an impartial investigation into an illegitimate and seemingly corrupt one. > … This is a really long article. Y’all can probably figure out what the rest of it says. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1211 "2017-12-08T23:19:02Z")
Newt Gingrich, May, 2017: “Robert Mueller is superb choice to be special counsel. His reputation is impeccable for honesty and integrity. Media should now calm down.” Newt Gingrich, December, 2017: “Mueller is corrupt. The senior FBI is corrupt. The system is corrupt.” ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1212 "2017-12-08T23:26:39Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Newt Gingrich, May, 2017: “Robert Mueller is superb choice to be special counsel. His reputation is impeccable for honesty and integrity. Media should now calm down.” > Newt Gingrich, December, 2017: “Mueller is corrupt. The senior FBI is corrupt. The system is corrupt.” Maybe the name of this investigation should be “Ironygate.” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1213 "2017-12-08T23:28:55Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > This, from FOX News, is encouraging. I mean, if FOX is against it, it must be a good thing. > > ["Jarrett: Mueller and his politically biased team of prosecutors need to go"](https://a.msn.com/r/2/BBGpxZx?m=en-us)This is a really long article. Y’all can probably figure out what the rest of it says. Earlier today, either MSNBC or CNN played a clip from Hannity’s 12/7/17 show in which he relentlessly hammered those same main points: Mueller is CORRUPT and Mueller is TRYING TO OVERTURN THE 2016 ELECTION RESULTS. Over and over again. I won’t look for a clip, as the odds are excellent that he’ll be saying the exact same thing tonight. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1214 "2017-12-08T23:49:12Z")
“Biased crusaders” is Fox-speak for an FBI agent who posted on Facebook that he planned to vote for Hillary. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2017, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1215 "2017-12-09T00:01:20Z")
I’m calling it: Trump will fire Mueller this weekend. Just call it a hunch. Most likely a wrong one, but still a hunch. Never forget: when you speak on Fox News you have an audience of one - the President. Hannity, Gingrich, et al are very conscious of the fact that Trump is watching, which is why they are egging him to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2017, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1216 "2017-12-09T00:04:52Z")
Apropos of nothing, am I the only one who thinks Hope Hicks looks like Jared Kushner in drag? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2017, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1217 "2017-12-09T00:09:26Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I find it interesting that none of the explanations explains all of the available data. Not entirely, they don’t. But I’ll take Flynn and his lawyer at their words from last March: “Gen. Flynn certainly has a story to tell, and he very much wants to tell it, should circumstances permit.” ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2017, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1218 "2017-12-09T00:35:04Z")
In today’s climate, this is a real possibility. “What if Mueller catches Trump — and it isn’t enough?” > **[Opinion | What if Mueller catches Trump — and it isn’t enough?](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/what-if-mueller-catches-trump--and-it-isnt-enough/2017/12/07/8c55de94-db81-11e7-b1a8-62589434a581_story.html)** > > If this Congress refuses to stand up for justice, we need to elect a Congress that will. > [@](#): > > We need to prepare for the eventuality that the Mueller probe catches President Trump, family members and associates red-handed — and Republicans in Congress refuse to do anything about it. > > This is beginning to look like a possible or even probable outcome. With a cravenness matched only by its arrogance, the GOP is Trump’s party now. It no longer has any claim to be Lincoln’s. > … > > Here is the distinction between our two major parties in 2017: Democratic leaders are forcing Rep. John Conyers Jr. (D-Mich.) and Sen. Al Franken (D-Minn.), both accused of harassing women, to resign. Republican leaders are trying to put Moore, accused of harassing teenagers and molesting a 14-year-old, in the Senate. > > Given that context, it is naive to assume that anything special counsel Robert S. Mueller III uncovers will lead Republicans to choose principle over political advantage. Trump boasted during the campaign that he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and not lose support. As far as the GOP majorities in Congress are concerned, he may be right. > … ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2017, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1219 "2017-12-09T00:37:04Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > In today’s climate, this is a real possibility. > > “What if Mueller catches Trump — and it isn’t enough?” > > [Opinion | What if Mueller catches Trump — and it isn’t enough? - The Washington Post](http://wapo.st/2iCPkqH) I’m a middle aged white guy and I’ll be in the streets for the first time in my life. I imagine I won’t be alone. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2017, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1220 "2017-12-09T03:24:58Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I’m a middle aged white guy and I’ll be in the streets for the first time in my life. I imagine I won’t be alone. You won’t be alone. In other news… [Paul Manafort is About to Have a Substantial Increase in His Bail](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-manafort/special-counsel-mueller-filing-shows-manafort-drafted-ukraine-op-ed-despite-gag-order-idUSKBN1E22P2). (Reuters) Assuming, of course, his bail isn’t fully revoked. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=60) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=62)